Building Idaho's Tomorrow: Business, Growth, and Opportunity • Senator Abby Lee
As a lifelong Republican and a conservative force for positive change, Senator Abby Lee stands as a beacon of integrity, guided by the principles instilled in her by her parents—a Marine Corps Captain Vietnam veteran and a first-grade teacher. Her parents valued hard work and education, and Abby experienced firsthand the profound impact those values can have on one's economic opportunities.
In the pursuit of economic prosperity and sustainable growth, Senator Lee champions the notion that businesses, not the government, create jobs. Attracting new business to our state – expanding the tax base not increasing taxes – is the way to increase investments in education to secure the future for our children.
In today’s NEW podcast episode with Senator Abby Lee, we discuss:
• Core principles that drive sustainable economic growth.
• The importance of strategic infrastructure investment as a driver of economic development, creating opportunities for businesses and communities alike.
• Education's transformative power on individuals and entire communities.
• Why the Idaho Launch program is a game-changer for students and the economy alike.
• The pivotal role that community colleges play in unlocking diverse education and training opportunities.
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Brennan Summers, Executive Director:
Welcome to Main Street Podcast, an opportunity to talk to Idaho's elected leaders about the issues that matter to you. Welcome, welcome. We're lucky enough today to be joined by Senator Lee Abby, not Mike, coming out of District nine. Senator, how are you?
Senator Abby Lee:
I'm great. Thanks for having me this morning. It's good to be here.
Brennan Summers, Executive Director:
Well, we appreciate you joining us. We were talking before how this is our first time actually meeting, and so I have this long, long list of all these questions about you and we're going to try to get through as many as we can today.
Senator Abby Lee:
Great. I'm excited.
Brennan Summers, Executive Director:
So typically they say that people are a byproduct of the home they were raised in. And I want to start by talking about the home you were raised in. Your father was a Marine Corps captain that served in Vietnam and Mother was an educator, first grade school teacher, I believe.
Senator Abby Lee:
Yeah, she was a kindergarten teacher, first grade teacher. And she also, when I was in high school, taught home ec and family living classes at my high school. So she's done a variety of things and has a PhD and is just an incredible human being.
Brennan Summers, Executive Director:
So why don't you talk a little bit about what it was like being raised in the balance between war hero and educator?
Senator Abby Lee:
Yeah. My dad is who also is amazing. I think I come from a lot of blessings and privilege and I think that that creates a lot of responsibility and something that my parents really instilled in all of us. There's four kids in my family, this responsibility to make things better wherever we go. And my dad was a vice president at a large corporation and my mom was a teacher and has always been a teacher before she was even a credentialed educator. And so I think that, as you say, really shapes your upbringing and your view of the world. Both my parents are first generation college students and I've spent the bulk of my career as we'll talk about working in education. And so that really forms my outlook and how education is the great equalizer and it changes lives.
Brennan Summers, Executive Director:
So your mother was a first generation college student and went on to get a PhD.
Senator Abby Lee:
My mom was a first generation college student. She's one of 13 kids. My grandpa was a coal miner in West Virginia. She was the first to finish high school. She was number six in the family and she was the first to go off to college and she had a scholarship to go up to college. And so that was a big leap for her to leave a tiny town in West Virginia and to go to college. And then she has since went to get a master's degree and she completed her PhD. So she's a great, great role model and my dad was the first in his family to also go to college.
Brennan Summers, Executive Director:
Wow, that's an incredible story. So you come from a rich history of people that just figure out how to get it done.
Senator Abby Lee:
Yeah, really people who had other people cheering them on, obviously people who were supporting my mom and encouraging her to make a difference and to change her future. And I am the product of someone of people. I'm the product of people who really just chose to make their life better. And I can see dramatically the difference between what could have been my life and what is my life just because of the choices that my parents made specifically in getting more education and getting good jobs.
Brennan Summers, Executive Director:
So in England they have a coin that their form of currency is the pound and they have a two pound coin. It's kind of a bigger coin if you've been to the uk seen it and inscribed on the outside of it, it says standing on the shoulders of giants. And so as you're telling me this, I'm thinking of you had the opportunity to stand really on the shoulders of giants who were pioneers in the world to be able to get into education to and to get these great jobs.
Senator Abby Lee:
Absolutely. And I can see the disparity between what my life has been able to be because of my parents' choices and the opportunities that they created for their family and certainly some of my family members who have great lives, but just different. And again, I really speak from a place of blessings and recognizing that because my parents made hard choices and did hard things, my life was better and I have an opportunity, I had opportunities to do things that otherwise wouldn't have been able to. And I'm incredibly grateful. And I think that really through that lens creates an opportunity and a responsibility for me to create opportunities for other people.
Brennan Summers, Executive Director:
Yeah. So you mentioned that kind of not, I shouldn't ascribe the family motto, but make things better is something that your family's focused on. You've spent nearly 10 years, right? It's been nearly a decade since you first got elected to the Idaho Senate trying to make things better. Do you feel like since you've got there, you've made things better for our state?
Senator Abby Lee:
Oh gosh, that's a big question, but I do, as I look back, I think one of the areas that I'm incredibly proud of is the work that I've done in child welfare, the work that I've done in foster care reform in giving a voice to often the most voiceless and vulnerable in our state. I'm incredibly proud of the Republican platform where we really value families. That's something that obviously was instilled in me, and I think that my work to expand foster care resources for the most vulnerable in our state really embodies those values of our Republican party.
Brennan Summers, Executive Director:
Let's talk a little bit about the foster care work you've been doing. There's so many issues that an elected leader in Boise can get their hands on. It's impossible to prioritize everything. What was it about foster care that attracted you to the policy issue and got you involved?
Senator Abby Lee:
So as we say, we're all shaped by our experiences and our family had the opportunity to be foster parents for some family members for a couple of years. And so I came to the legislature with that experience and with some of the, I think, difficulties in navigating that and just walked into a policy window as we call it, working with then Representative Moyle and representative Christie Perry to really address I think some major concerns with transparency in that system. And so bringing my personal experience along with I think some gaps in the policy, the time was right. And so we really, I think brought transparency, accountability, and at the same time I brought additional resources to address those things. And I think I'm really proud that this legislature, we were able to pass some pretty significant reform and support that had fiscal notes as a fiscal note is a bill that has dollars attached to it.
We were able to expand foster care to age 21 unanimously through the Senate and the House after about six years of working on this, which is transformative to get folks concerned about a policy issue that typically doesn't get you reelected as you say, these are big issues, these are not really attractive issues like tax reform or some of those other things that people are buying for. And so I really saw an opportunity to work on an issue that other people weren't focused on and something that was going to really make a difference for Idaho. Idaho.
Brennan Summers, Executive Director:
And I think you bring out a point here that Congressman Simpson and I speak about extensively where sometimes voters and the public, we think it's absurd that an elective leader should spend more than a few years in any position, right? Go in and do your job and just get out. But to this point, for these vulnerable populations, for those in foster care, this would not have gotten solved if you said, okay, I'm going to do two terms in I Idaho Senate be done. Because the complexities, it's safe to say that it took a full six years and if you would've bailed out early, this might not have gotten done.
Senator Abby Lee:
And I think that's really the message that I tell constituents. And I also tell new legislators, let's take our small wins and move the ball down the field. We have that sports analogy all the time. It's not always a touchdown, but it's can we get that first down? Can we start having that conversation? And so we did have a lot of small wins along the way. So each year we would bring back a piece of policy and then we created a child welfare oversight committee that I co-chair with Representative Brandon Mitchell. And again, I'm about bringing accountability to our government agencies. I think that that's our responsibility, but at the same time, we've got to provide the support and resources to get the job done. And I think that that's been an important balance. And you've heard lots of, I'm sure policymakers talk about don't let the possible get in the way of the perfect, get in the way of the possible. Let's have some compromise. Let's have some discussions. But again, as you point out, I think it does take time to build credibility and to build trust. And I'm proud that when we have child welfare issues, whether it's adoption or foster care or other issues with the Department of Health and Welfare, that my colleagues see me as a real resource, as someone who's worked on these issues on the policy side as well as the budget side, as I served on the joint finance appropriation committee and really worked these issues from the resource side,
Brennan Summers, Executive Director:
And I mean your juggling issues. So it's not that your sole focus has been the foster care issues, education has been a big issue for you. We spoke last week, two weeks ago with Chair Yamamoto about the importance of education and she laid out the pretty clear argument for the constitutional case of public education and funding it and the role of the legislature in ensuring we have a successful education program in Idaho public education. But we often hear from our representatives about kind of the emotional cause or argument for education that this is the right thing to do, this is what these kids need. And I think a lot of the voters and public buy-in into, yes, this is the right thing. You agree to that I'm sure. But you also have talked a lot about the economic argument, which is one that I'm really excited to talk to you about. Walk us through your perspective on education and how you connect it, not just to the feel good kid in the classroom learning how to read, but to the community, to taxes, to jobs, and to everything else that goes on in society.
Senator Abby Lee:
Yeah, I love that you start with our constitution, right? That's the oath that we take when we become elected leaders in Idaho. And so we should be able to go back to that. That is our responsibility, but more than just being the right thing to do, it really is this economic driver. And as I said at the beginning, I can see that my life opportunities economically were dramatically changed by my parents' access to education and skills. And I think that's the exciting thing about the launch program. It's been interesting to have it be so heavily criticized that we are investing in opportunities for education in our state that we know translates to better jobs, to jobs that help take care of families and jobs that keep people in Idaho helping to grow the economy, spread that tax base, all the things that we talk about that we want.
And yet, somehow this investment in these opportunities has been really derided. I look at what is the proper role of government. We talk about what is the proper role of government all the time and the proper role of government is to do the things that the market cannot and will not do. And so you probably, I've seen some of the criticism of let the market do this, let the businesses take care of these things. I've spent my life's work in education. I'm an administrator at Treasure Valley Community College. I'm incredibly proud of the work that I've done there. And clearly the market isn't fixing this. We have students who are not going on to college, not going on to jobs, not going on to skills or leaving our state. And so I think it's a really innovative way to invest in the things that, the outcomes that we want to see. We do it across tax policy all the time. We provide tax rebates or tax credits or we tax things more to get the kinds of behaviors and to incentivize and reward or to disincentivize actions. And I think that we can look at our investment education in a similar way. We know it changes lives and we know it changes communities. And so I think we should do more of this.
Brennan Summers, Executive Director:
Yeah, great line there about the proper role of government is to do that, which the market can't or won't do. So you brought up Launch. We hear a lot about launch the ball, moving down the field, take the little, this was a big win that happened this last session for a lot of those who supported it, and a big priority for our governor. For those that are hearing about launch, they're hearing the criticism that it's wasteful tax dollars or they're hearing the support that it's helping out kids. Let's dig in a little bit more. What is it that Launch does that isn't already happening? Why is this such a need in Idaho?
Senator Abby Lee:
Well, I think some people are seeing this as a grand experiment of giving students dollars to incentivize them to go to college by really filling in that gap For students who don't qualify for Pell Grants, I mean, let's be real, if you are a very, very low income student, you have a lot of opportunities for financial aid and that's incredible. But if you are a middle income family, where do you get those additional dollars, especially in this economy to go to school? And so I think that it fills that need. It also fills the need for programs that don't qualify for financial aid. So as we look at commercial truck driving or we look at cosmetology or some of those other jobs that really are good wage earning jobs and create entrepreneurs, I think investing on that in the front end is going to pay huge dividends when these are individuals who are going to be able to pay taxes and invest in their community.
So I think it seems very innovative, and yet we're not ahead of the curve on this. There are a lot of states that have already done this Utah, and we have a little bit of a fun thing going in the Senate where every time we say Utah, we have to put a dollar in a swear draw. But Utah is an example of a state that not only has done huge investments in the dual credit, which is college credit in high school, where you already have a little bit of an opportunity to help students, but if you get your associate's degree in high school, then you can go on and complete your degree at any university in the state. So what does that do? That gets students staying in state, they're marrying people in state, they're getting apprenticeships in states, and they're investing in that state and staying in the state of Utah.
And I want to see some of those things happen in Idaho. Idaho is an incredible place to be. It's an incredible place to raise our families. It has been an incredible place for generations. So I appreciate new people coming here, but we've built a pretty robust economy and I think that we can look at other states as models, and again, we're not ahead of the curve on investing in higher education. And so we have the opportunity to learn from other states, and I think launch is an example of what we've learned from other states, and we've seen that it really does make an economic difference in the state.
Brennan Summers, Executive Director:
Yeah, I'm thinking back to my experience. So I went to Bonneville High School in OT Falls graduated, and there were two dual credit classes offered. So there was a history class offered that you could get credit through I Idaho State University, and then there was a math class offered where you could get college algebra credit through I think Northwest Nazarene. When I graduated high school and went to school, I went to Utah State and my cohorts in my classes that had been attending Utah High schools in 2012, most of them had their associates. They had a number of opportunities that I didn't have in high school. Idaho's kind of caught up to that in regards to dual credit classes. Now, if you walked into Bon Bonneville High School, there's a lot more than two dual credit classes and a lot of these kids can now graduates or associates.
So it feels like we have been a little behind and then this launch is an opportunity to catch up. So I think it's fantastic. The governor has said that his focus of everything he does is how does he keep Idaho and his kids and grandkids to want to stay here? So you bring up number one launches for those that don't qualify for federal aid, either due to the program or due to Pell Grant, their own status. Number two, this is supposed to fill jobs that the market is telling you that aren't happening. What are you hearing from businesses in your district and around the state about the need to fill some of these jobs?
Senator Abby Lee:
So I'm hearing a lot from plumbing and HVAC and some of those manufacturing jobs where again, if I go back to the criticism of the market should do this, if you own a small plumbing company, it's really difficult to get new workers and how do you spend the time training them when you're also trying to go out and finish jobs so that you can pay your own bills? I also come from an education background, and I think education and training is a profession and there is a way to educate and train people, and it's not necessarily just on the job by seeing and doing. There's an under respected profession, so let's let the educators, those who are trained and those who have been able to develop curriculum to specifically help broad education, not just put a widget in or peg in a hole kind of a thing.
We talk about the need for holistic education, and I think that's the piece that we really need to look at the professionals who are helping to train individuals. And it's not just on the job training, and that's what my companies are saying is we need people who can read. We need people who can do math. We need people who can communicate well. And they also, oh, by the way, need to help develop these skills and we need credentials and we need testing to make sure before they go out and produce whatever's work product there is that there is kind of a vetting of that. And I think our community colleges especially skilled in being able to provide that resource.
Brennan Summers, Executive Director:
Yeah, that's exactly where I want to go is community colleges. So excuse me, Idaho's go on rate has been abysmal and I think we're realizing more and more four year degrees not for everybody. The worst thing somebody can do is get into college without really having a path, and then they end up burdened with student loans and then they bail without the degree. And we're seeing that throughout the country. The pendulum has kind of swung all over the place of everybody needs to go to college too, maybe nobody needs to go to college and back and forth. That I think Idaho's trying to find a sweet spot. You mentioned your career has been spent at a community college. Talk us through your unique perspective of what the community colleges are doing to provide kind of a fix for this.
Senator Abby Lee:
So I'm a fan of all of our universities also, and I think they absolutely have a role. I'm completing my PhD and so I clearly am invested in education, but I think our community colleges were really born out of a need for open access and open door. And so helping every student who comes, I like to say that our community colleges are kind of the Ellis Island of higher education where whoever comes with whatever goal, we're going to help them meet that. I also am one that doesn't believe that every student should go to college, but I do believe that every student who graduates from a high school and I think people should graduate from high school. That's kind of our base constitutional requirement that you should graduate from high school, either job and career ready or college ready. And I think there's a mix of that.
So we can do a lot with apprenticeships in high school. We can do a lot with apprenticeships those first two years of college, and then if you want to go on to medical school or you want to go on to become a teacher with a bachelor's degree, we should scaffold all of that. But I definitely think that education, as I said, is that great opportunity provider and we know that there is an exponential return on our investment for every dollar that we spend in education. I've had debates with people about should we take federal dollars for education and what should we do and what is our responsibility? And I can tell you that we're investing a lot in other social services that could be solved when we have I think whole healthy educated families. I serve on the Judiciary rules committee, and so I look at a lot of those, as I said, from foster care to juvenile corrections to the Department of Corrections. And every dollar that we put in education I think is an incredible investment in reducing some of those risks or other social issues.
Brennan Summers, Executive Director:
Yeah, I'm thinking I had a conversation with some individuals that run the local jail here and that very similar conversations, it's triggered. But Senator, our conversations today have all been centered around policy and you mentioned following your mother's footsteps, you're completing a PhD. We talked before about, we just got the dissertations, all that's left, and then you're going to be not just senator, but Dr. Abby Lee, your PhD is in policy and administration. When people think of elected leaders and they think of their senator, oftentimes it's not policy that comes to mind, it's politics. So I was hoping we could have a little discussion about the difference between statutes and yard signs, right, of campaign buttons and laws and how you kind of balance the two of politics is kind of how you get elected policies, how you govern. But in the Idaho Senate and the Idaho legislature as a whole, sometimes politics is the order of the day and it's not policy. How do you balance the two?
Senator Abby Lee:
I love that question and I think those who know me would probably agree. I think I'm a really good policy maker. I really am someone who studies the details and I wrestle with those. I don't know that I'm a great politician because I don't do well with looking for headlines or looking for taking credit for things. And yet there is a balance. And I often say that we run the risk of applying reason and logic to a political process, which simply the two are very separate. And so for me, I try to understand and respect what my constituents want me to do. And when I think I disagree with kind of a headline position, it's my job to go back home at either town halls or community meetings or through newsletters and explain my position to constituents about as we launch is a great example about really looking at how this is an economic investment just as I'm using tax dollars for other things, whether it's roads and bridges, or whether I'm giving tax breaks for homeowners or those types of things, that this really is an investment that I think is going to be good policy for Idaho.
But it's tough and it's getting tougher, as you know with social media and memes and kind of the vitriol that is growing of your either good or evil, and yet reasonable minds can disagree. We can disagree on policy solutions and we can both be right. And that's what our founders wanted is this system that is fraught with tension and it's slow and it's deliberative, and we can have disagreements without being angry and disagreeable. And that doesn't necessarily mean that you have to be Pollyanna nice. But I do think that you have to be civil, and I think that that is kind of an ethical position that people are missing
Brennan Summers, Executive Director:
Reasonable minds can disagree. I think that's an important thing for all of us to remember. Senator Lent was here and taught us that. Well, he says he refuses to accept compromises a weakness, he views it as a strength in his political career and in his personal life, and he will always stand by that. But we live in a world where today, this whole episode could have just been, we could have boiled it down to the talking points of the day and to get real dark red about things that really can wind up the lowest common denominator of political issues. Why do you continually choose policy issues over political issues that might make your reelection easier?
Senator Abby Lee:
Because I think having that seat at the table, the reason that I wanted to run for the legislature is because I didn't feel like I was being represented. I was one of those naive individuals who I'd never run for office before, but I knew that the individual who was serving in the seat at the time that I actually was running against had voted against almost every education bill, most of the transportation funding. And what I always say is these are hard issues, right? And yes and no are simple answers to complex issues, and all we get in the legislature are complex issues. If they were simple issues, they'd be solved before they came to us. And so I really think we have to be thoughtful about what we do in Boise matters. It matters to the families, it matters to the businesses, it matters to our schools. It matters to the future of Idaho. And so I think that's why I care about policy because these aren't just simple. Yes and no. They're complex issues and I've got to vote on, but all I get to do is say yes and no. And I care deeply about the future. My girls are fifth generation Idahoans and I want them to live in Idaho, and I want them to have all the benefits and blessings that I think that I've enjoyed.
Brennan Summers, Executive Director:
I think it's obvious as you speak to the issues, it's clear your passion and love for the state, your passion and love for the district. I told you I wasn't going to ask too many difficult questions, but this is the part of the podcast where we always ask the toughest questions. Okay, the first one, we need a book recommendation from you. The one book. We always have to ask those on the podcast. If there was one book that you'd recommend everybody needs to read before they die, what would it be?
Senator Abby Lee:
I was just reading Democracy, and I'm stunned by, I don't have the author, so I'll have to get back with you on that. But also, another book that I think is fascinating for policymakers is Ken Meyers, the Politics of Sin. And it is a fascinating look at the rules and laws that we make around prohibition, around abortion, around murder, around all the things that we want to create for norms and morays and values in our community. It's a quick read, and he is a fascinating public policy scholar out of Texas a and m University. I grew up in Dallas, so Ken Meyers, politics of Sin. I don't know if it's the one book that everyone in their life should read, but I do think it's a great book for policymakers to read.
Brennan Summers, Executive Director:
Alright, democracy and the Policy of Sin. We'll put those both on the list. Now in your district, district nine, what is one place that you think, okay, this is a place everybody needs to eat?
Senator Abby Lee:
Oh my goodness, you're going to get me. I got tough questions, a lot of trouble, but I think everybody should go to Weezer Classic Candy. If you have not been out to Weezer, you've got to go out to Patrick. He's my candy man. He comes to the capitol every year when we do the buy Idaho, and he has the Velvet Mints that we sell on in the gift shop, and they have fantastic soups and sandwiches and res dairy, ice cream, and the best homemade chocolate. So come out to the Fiddle Festival and go to Weezer Classic Candy and see my friend Patrick.
Brennan Summers, Executive Director:
Yeah, you're speaking my language with Reeds dairy ice cream as a eastern Idaho boy. So okay, we'll put that on the list too. Senator, we started today talking about the unique family you grew up in, a war hero father, an educator mother, both of whom really have a compelling story of where they started and where they finished. Then we talked a little bit about the work you've done in the Senate in nearly 10 years with not just the foster care reform, but the work you've been doing with education. We got into launch, you explained how that's really paving the way for Idaho's youth. We talked about the proper role of government and that it can do what needs to do, what the market can't. We've got into all these different issues as we've come along. Senator, as we wrap up and run out of time here, what is the message you would like to leave to the listeners who might not be tuned into all the political issues of the day, who maybe vote here and there in presidential elections, but need to hear something from an elected leader?
Senator Abby Lee:
So I think get involved. Get involved and make sure that you vote and then get involved in your local elections. And if you don't want to run for office support, a candidate who is running for office, my best advice is you are your best candidate. You agree with yourself a hundred percent of the time, but unless you are running, unless you are that candidate, you've got to find a candidate who most closely aligns with your views and values. You're not going to find someone who agrees with you a hundred percent probably in your family, and certainly not in the legislature, but find somebody and then support that person financially or with a yard sign, or just send a kind note, Hey, I really appreciated your stand on that. It is a lonely proposition to be in these jobs, and I don't say that to get any sympathy, but I say that from a human perspective of if you see something that you support, send a note that buoys that individual incredibly. So again, you're your best candidate. If you're not running, find someone who is and support them.
Brennan Summers, Executive Director:
Oh, fantastic message. Fantastic. Well, reasonable minds can disagree as you taught us today, but on that we agree. Senator Lee, thank you so much for joining us. We're going to have you back. Okay,
Senator Abby Lee:
Thank you. Thanks for your time today. I appreciate it.
Brennan Summers, Executive Director:
Thank you so much.
