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Eric Stamps 10/29/24 Eric Stamps 10/29/24

Helping Businesses Thrive in Idaho

Episode 11 Bobbi-Jo Meuleman—Main Street Idaho Podcast Season 3

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President and CEO of the Boise Metro Chamber of Commerce (BMCC), Bobbi-Jo Meuleman, is our special guest for episode 11 of the Main Street Idaho Podcast. Among her many accomplished roles, Meuleman highlights her past experience working with former Governor Butch Otter and current Governor Brad Little. Now advocating for businesses as the BMCC President & CEO, Meuleman explains how she plans to help businesses thrive throughout Idaho.

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0:00

welcome to the Idaho Main Street podcast

0:02

where we talk about the issues that

0:03

matter to

0:05

[Music]

0:10

you we're excited today to have a

0:12

fixture of leadership in the Gem State

0:15

uh the current CEO and president of the

0:18

boyy Metro chamber none other than Bobby

0:21

Joe mman Bobby Joe thanks for joining

0:23

the podcast today thank you I appreciate

0:25

the

0:26

opportunity we're excited today to draw

0:29

from wealth of your knowledge you've got

0:31

a lot of experience You' got this

0:33

somewhat new role with the chamber we'll

0:35

get into but before we dig into chamber

0:37

and economic development and all that

0:39

fun stuff I think it would be important

0:41

to kind of cover your origin story here

0:43

help us understand how you went from

0:45

working in Washington DC for a Montana

0:49

Congressman to end up working for two

0:51

governors in of Idaho and boisee yeah uh

0:55

yeah it's kind of a fun story to talk

0:57

about um I born and raised in Montana

1:00

and when I was a junior in college I

1:02

went to the University of Montana in

1:04

Missoula my major was political science

1:07

not because you know I thought that I

1:09

would have a career in politics I simply

1:11

liked government and history so was

1:14

thought hey why not uh when I was in

1:16

junior a junior in college I did an

1:18

internship in Washington DC with Senator

1:20

Conrad Burns and I can tell you it was

1:23

probably a very pivotal point in my life

1:26

a decision I made that was would impact

1:28

me for the rest of my life life that I

1:30

had no idea I was making at the time

1:32

went back to DC absolutely loved it fell

1:35

in love with the office just loved

1:36

working out there it's a it's a great

1:38

fun environment had one year of college

1:41

left came back graduated and had a job

1:44

with them I graduated on Saturday on

1:47

Monday my Mom and Dad and I had my Chevy

1:50

Silverado packed up and we drove from

1:52

brownie Montana to Washington DC which

1:54

to give you a sense of where Browning

1:57

Montana is it took us eight hours just

1:59

to get out of Montana because we went

2:01

from one part of the state to the other

2:03

uh but moved to Washington DC and uh

2:06

worked for Conrad Burns for a few years

2:08

and then he lost re-election to John

2:10

tester at that time I went to work for

2:14

Congressman Denny reberg from Montana

2:16

when I was working for Senator Burns I

2:18

met my husband we started dating he was

2:21

working for Senator Craig and we got

2:24

engaged my husband got a job back out

2:27

here in boisee he's B born and raised

2:29

and as politics is or just life in

2:31

general it's a lot of relationships who

2:33

you know the congressman I was working

2:35

for was very good friends with Governor

2:37

Butch a because they served in Congress

2:39

together the congressman made a call and

2:41

said hey there's this Montana Girl

2:43

moving to Idaho and if you got a job or

2:45

know something she'd be you know G gave

2:48

me a gloating recommendation and

2:51

happened to be that Governor otter had a

2:53

job opening for the same job I was doing

2:55

for the congressman which was a

2:56

scheduler and I went interviewed with

2:58

him and the rest is kind of History wow

3:02

okay there's a lot to unpack there and I

3:04

think one of them that jumps out is this

3:06

is very topical because your old boss

3:08

that lost re-election to Senator tester

3:10

at at time of recording right now that

3:12

is a neck-and-neck race that could

3:14

determine who controls the Senate the

3:16

Republicans and Democrats isn't it funny

3:19

I think about that I was watching the

3:21

news the other day and they did a big

3:23

segment on it about the sheii tester

3:26

race and it's really fascinating to me

3:29

to think

3:30

I mean to think about I mean because

3:31

that was a really close race and no one

3:33

thought tester would win and he did and

3:35

it was a huge upset and now that race

3:38

could determine you know it's a really

3:40

big race it's funny uh Conrad Burns I

3:45

got a signed picture of his it's a a

3:49

United States capital and it's signed by

3:51

him it's actually in my office here if I

3:54

could if if I knew how to work this

3:55

computer I'd show you but when I was

3:57

working for governor little we actually

4:00

um Senator tester's nephew was an intern

4:03

and I called him in and I said do you

4:05

see that picture and he was like yeah

4:07

I'm like you know who that guy is and

4:09

he's like I think so and I was like it's

4:11

a guy that beat my boss and he was

4:13

terrified he now works for um Senator

4:17

rich and we laugh about it a lot about

4:18

that story but yeah it's kind of weird

4:20

4:21

think that now that is a really pivotal

4:23

race that could really determine a lot

4:25

of things wow and what a small world in

4:30

politics yeah yeah that's incredible so

4:32

from uh then Congressman Butch Otter's

4:35

office you then transitioned when he won

4:37

the governorship to to his to your first

4:40

stint in you know executive

4:44

office when I moved to Idaho he was a

4:47

governor at that point he was he was in

4:49

his first term as Governor okay so it

4:51

was a newly elected governor you joined

4:54

that staff great so you worked for

4:56

governor otter and you obviously have

4:58

worked for our current governor governor

4:59

Brad little talk to us about what

5:01

different experiences those were knowing

5:03

that many of our listeners have great

5:05

adoration for both men both very AG

5:07

focused business friendly but they are

5:10

different and they took different

5:12

approaches yeah they were both really

5:14

wonderful you know people often ask me

5:16

about you know my trajectory and my

5:18

success in politics and I mean I can

5:21

single-handedly said if it if it were

5:22

not for those two men I would not be

5:24

where I am today they you know being

5:26

elevated and supported by Governors is a

5:29

pretty cool thing and I will forever be

5:32

grateful for them they are wonderful and

5:34

are really I mean it every success has

5:38

people behind you lifting you up and

5:40

those two men were it for sure you know

5:42

it's really funny they're both similar

5:44

but different in their ways you know

5:46

Governor otter he's a guy that he's just

5:49

so personable right you could he'd go in

5:53

never read a memo right go in it could

5:55

be he's going to go talk to a bunch of

5:58

Educators and he'd start talking about

6:00

the Antiquities act and maybe not even

6:02

touch on education and everyone would

6:03

love it right they'd be raving and

6:05

roaring because he was just so

6:07

personable right and then Governor

6:09

little is you know he is just so smart

6:14

and such a policy guy right he knows the

6:16

details of everything which is really

6:19

fun because he he is engaged in every

6:21

level and so very you know detail

6:24

oriented data

6:26

oriented um reads everything I remember

6:29

once uh I did nuclear stuff for him and

6:32

there was a big nuclear report that came

6:35

out with the line commission and he

6:38

asked me he's like did you read this and

6:40

I was like no because I knew you would

6:42

and then you tell me about it so but

6:44

both very you know when we would go to

6:47

Republican Governor events in other

6:49

states everyone just they would Rave

6:52

about how personable and how kind and

6:55

how accessible and down toe our

6:58

Governors are and I think that's

7:00

something that's really special and so

7:02

they're very similar in that way right

7:03

that they're just genuine people and

7:05

they really do care um have such a great

7:08

understanding of the culture and the

7:11

history and the roots of this state um

7:14

it's it's really unique just the

7:16

knowledge that they that they have and I

7:18

think we're really lucky to you know

7:21

have had and have Governors that that

7:23

operate that way I I completely agree

7:26

and I'm going to shift the spotlight a

7:28

little away from them and a little more

7:29

on you at the moment because you're a

7:32

prime example of of meritocracy in Idaho

7:35

of somebody who started a position and

7:37

just I don't want to put words in your

7:39

mouth but you have a reputation as

7:41

somebody who does their homework who

7:42

works really hard who manages

7:44

relationships really well and cares

7:46

about the people she works with and you

7:48

found yourself in really significant

7:50

positions of influence in Idaho and

7:52

having the governor's years for those

7:54

who are listening uh walk us through the

7:56

approach of maybe where you credit

7:58

growth in Public Service in in in your

8:03

approach it's interesting and it was my

8:05

husband and it was when I took this role

8:08

and one of the things I had to do when I

8:10

first took this role was there was an

8:13

event where people got to learn about me

8:15

and I don't really like talking about

8:16

myself and my husband said to me you

8:20

have an interesting story to tell where

8:22

you started out as a scheduler right I

8:25

started out as a solely

8:27

administrative job and have worked my

8:29

way up through the different ranks and

8:33

you know I I don't really know how to

8:36

credit that except from you know hard

8:38

work right you you have to be responsive

8:41

you have to work hard um I think there's

8:46

real value in relationships and knowing

8:48

people and I I got to know that at a at

8:51

an early age and I think because I was a

8:53

scheduler I think that really C started

8:56

cultivating the importance of that you

8:58

know being in that role you are the the

9:00

face the front entrance to you know

9:03

these elected officials and with that

9:05

you get to know people and you get to

9:06

know their story and you get to know if

9:09

it's a good thing for your boss to do or

9:11

maybe not a good thing for your boss to

9:12

do and and through that you just build

9:15

these relationships and you really start

9:16

to see the power of knowing people and

9:19

how that just can can make things to get

9:22

done better you know I think there's

9:24

nothing more rewarding when you can take

9:28

an issue and bring people from all

9:31

different sides and Views work together

9:33

sometimes it's painful and it's torture

9:36

but there is no better feeling when you

9:39

work together towards something and you

9:41

achieve something and that gets done

9:43

through relationships and so I think

9:46

that has just been one thing that my

9:48

career I've continued to do is really

9:50

understand the importance of those

9:52

relationships Foster those relationships

9:54

and it takes time it takes time but I've

9:57

always made time for it right and I've

10:00

really been rewarded for that because by

10:02

doing that people get to know you people

10:04

see your quality people know what you're

10:06

capable of people trust you and it

10:10

really has been what has led me to every

10:13

kind of advancement that I've had in my

10:15

career I can pinpoint I think it's

10:18

because of relationships that have been

10:20

developed yeah there's definitely a

10:21

lesson there in both personal and

10:23

professional development uh so does that

10:26

mean that the learning curve when you

10:27

went from you know public service and

10:30

government to your current role at the

10:31

boisee Metro chamber was the learning

10:33

curve shrunk because of all these

10:35

experiences and relationships you had I

10:37

would say honestly the biggest learning

10:39

curve for me is when I moved from DC

10:43

from federal government and when into

10:45

state government that was a big shift um

10:49

the expectation is much different on a

10:51

state level the expectation for a

10:53

governor is much different than on a

10:55

federal level because you're closer to

10:57

the people and there was a huge learning

11:00

curve like I remember it was my first

11:02

day and I think I started it in November

11:05

and the chief of staff at the time Jason

11:07

Kerbeck came in to me and he said hey I

11:09

needed to get a meeting with the

11:10

governor and all the Constitutional

11:12

officers and I was like yeah on it I had

11:14

to Google I didn't even know what a

11:15

constitutional officer was I'm like what

11:17

is he talking about right who are these

11:20

people and so it's just it's much closer

11:23

and there's a big learning curve right

11:25

of getting to know you know obviously

11:28

you have to learn how the governor's

11:30

office works but how the how all the

11:32

agencies work how the legislative

11:35

process is the judicial process I mean

11:38

it's just all the way down to like City

11:40

County tribal I mean you're interacting

11:42

with so many different levels that it it

11:45

was that was I would say a a learning

11:48

curve from from that perspective I will

11:50

tell you going into this job I felt very

11:54

fortunate having the relationships that

11:57

I had I know a lot of people right and

12:00

so having that has been really helpful

12:02

also my time at the Department of

12:04

Commerce really I think set me up pretty

12:06

well for this job just in the sense of

12:09

kind of the economics of it and you know

12:11

the business component of it has been

12:13

really helpful um but there has been a

12:15

learning curve for sure too I've never

12:17

worked in an association world so I've

12:20

had to learn a lot about membership and

12:22

a lot about sales we have leadership

12:25

programs you know a lot of those things

12:27

so so there has definitely been a

12:29

learning curve but I do think my

12:32

experiences in working in the state for

12:34

as long as I did and just knowing a lot

12:36

of people knowing how a lot of things

12:38

work and

12:39

operate gave me a little bit of an

12:41

advantage in this job I think yeah me

12:44

many in the business Community heavily

12:47

rely on local Chambers but many in the

12:51

general populace probably aren't

12:53

familiar for me for example I spent way

12:55

too long thinking that the Bank of

12:57

Commerce and Chamber of Commerce were

12:58

the same thing so for those who were are

13:01

as ignorant as I am can you give us a

13:04

101 on Chambers how they work and why

13:06

they operate yeah so you know Chambers

13:09

are really their business associations

13:12

right they're they're a place where

13:14

businesses come together and they come

13:16

together for different reasons but

13:18

Chambers are facilitators of

13:21

conversations of ideas they are a place

13:25

where you come to be Community Advocates

13:27

they're a place where you can get

13:29

members together to talk about issues

13:32

that matter to the business Community um

13:36

they're a place where you can foster

13:37

Future Leaders you know I think Chambers

13:41

are we do a lot of uh connecting a lot

13:44

13:45

advocacy um a lot of partnering you know

13:48

it's really an association where you can

13:50

come together and belong and we have a

13:52

little bit of something for everyone and

13:54

you know at the boisey Metro chamber we

13:56

have a pretty big membership base and

13:59

you know we have membership from very

14:02

big businesses to very small businesses

14:05

we have businesses that are in retail we

14:07

have businesses that are in finance we

14:09

have businesses that are in healthare

14:11

manufacturing so on and so forth and

14:14

they all join a chamber you know some of

14:16

them for different reasons but a lot of

14:18

it is to be part of something and that

14:20

has been the coolest thing I think for

14:22

me in this

14:24

job is especially in this in the metro

14:27

area is

14:29

the generosity of our business community

14:32

and how much they give back I mean they

14:35

really are the factor that we are doing

14:38

so well in the Treasure Valley is

14:39

because of that generosity I'm kind of

14:41

embarrassed that I wasn't aware of how

14:43

generous they were and all of the

14:45

wonderful things that they do and I

14:48

think that's one of the coolest things

14:50

and things I've really enjoyed the most

14:52

about this job is is really getting to

14:54

have more of a role in the community and

14:56

and being part of keeping the community

14:59

the place we all like to live work play

15:03

and where people like to come visit yeah

15:05

can you highlight some of those may

15:07

maybe just some odd examples of where

15:09

you've seen local businesses uh show

15:13

this sense of

15:14

generosity well I mean you see it

15:17

firsthand right at for a chamber right

15:19

we're membership do based we're events

15:21

based and they always show up right

15:23

they're always there supporting us at

15:25

the different entities of things that

15:26

we've done I've gotten to really

15:30

get to know a lot more about our

15:31

nonprofit community in the Treasure

15:34

Valley and in Idaho uh this past year

15:37

and you know all of them have certain

15:39

events or fundraising levels that they

15:42

do and they all get success because they

15:46

have great Partners from our business

15:48

Community another example is in Idaho I

15:51

can think of or I'm sorry in in the

15:53

Treasure Valley I can think of five or

15:56

six Capital campaigns with some

15:58

nonprofits right off the top of my head

16:00

they're all being successful they're and

16:02

these are Big projects and they're all

16:04

being successful because of that

16:06

business support that you know

16:08

investment that their business Community

16:09

is making it's just it's really eye

16:12

openening and it's really cool and it

16:14

makes you realize that it's kind

16:17

everything's kind of bigger than us

16:18

right and one thing that's been kind of

16:23

something I've thought a lot more about

16:25

is okay now what do I need to be giving

16:27

back right how can we give back how can

16:29

I individually and how can the chamber

16:32

give back and so we're we're coming up

16:35

with ways of how we can highlight the

16:37

nonprofit sectors and things like that

16:39

to to be give back like our our partners

16:43

do and I'm so glad you you brought this

16:45

up because you can't really go to a

16:48

local school or the symphony or a sports

16:51

event without seeing uh you know

16:53

businesses who are willing to put their

16:54

name on things to are willing to try to

16:56

make the community better but it's not

16:58

all one-sided they need something back

17:00

and it's not just our patronage but as a

17:03

voice for business they also need

17:05

government to work in a certain way in

17:07

what ways have have you decided that

17:10

it's important for Idaho to better

17:11

foster the business

17:14

Community well you know I think that's

17:17

one of the biggest things it's one of

17:19

the things I'm the most excited about in

17:21

this job because it's it's you know my

17:25

it's where I came from and that's that's

17:26

government that's advocacy right and how

17:29

can we how can we be the voice you know

17:31

we get to be the voice for business and

17:33

so how can we be better at that and

17:36

Advocate better for them and I think a

17:38

lot of it is too is how do we ensure

17:40

we're the voice for all of our members

17:42

right and so one of the things we're

17:44

really trying to do is we have

17:46

committees and councils broken up

17:47

education Transportation all the

17:49

different big issues making sure that

17:52

we're listening to the members that

17:54

participate in that so we know the

17:55

challenges that business is facing right

17:57

now and so that's the first thing right

17:59

you need to know what those challenges

18:02

are for your

18:04

membership um you know some of the

18:06

things we're dealing with here in the

18:07

metro area is you know transportation

18:10

and homelessness and things like that on

18:12

a community level and so really being

18:15

engaged in understanding and being at

18:18

the table at those conversations you

18:20

know someone said to me what do you want

18:21

to see the chamber in in a year what

18:25

success for you and and really obviously

18:27

it's membership we need to Main mainin

18:29

membership and continue to grow but I

18:31

also want the boisey chamber to be

18:32

someone that everyone's like they need

18:34

to be at the table for these discussions

18:36

right like we need to be part of the

18:39

conversation and so it's understanding

18:42

our members needs it is maintaining

18:44

relationship with uh government

18:47

officials from all levels from State

18:49

local and federal having those

18:51

relationships so when there are those

18:53

issues that our members are having we

18:56

have the opportunity to sit down and

18:57

have those convers ation and then just

19:00

making sure we're present right we got

19:02

to make sure we're present when these

19:03

conversations are going on and

19:05

partnering I'm a huge advocate for

19:07

Partnerships and that's one thing I've

19:09

really tried to do this past year is get

19:11

out to our other associations members

19:14

you know folks like us and say hey let's

19:16

partner how can we work together because

19:18

I really think we're better together and

19:21

you know high tide floats all boats or

19:23

whatever that saying is I truly believe

19:25

that so it's kind of a a there's diff a

19:29

lot of things we have to do but it is

19:31

something for me that is a it's a

19:33

priority and I think it's a real benefit

19:35

for being part of a chamber is is having

19:38

a strong voice yeah and you you

19:41

referenced earlier the the learning

19:42

curve between the expectations of

19:45

working in Washington DC and then at a

19:47

state level and I I'll I'll fill in the

19:49

Gap that I'm I'm guessing the references

19:51

the expectation in DC if something

19:53

doesn't move gridlock is you know kind

19:55

of the the the it's it's the normality

19:58

right it's

19:59

it is whereas in in Idaho especially in

20:01

Idaho the expectation is that uh we will

20:04

have a balanced budget that the governor

20:06

will be able to step up and help with

20:07

whether it's infrastructure needs or

20:09

great programs like launch or cutting

20:10

red tape and all the things that you

20:11

were involved with it's kind of the same

20:14

in your role now in that businesses are

20:17

less concerned about the partisanship

20:18

but the expectation is that they they

20:20

need they need uh solutions to

20:23

infrastructure Workforce things like

20:25

that do you find yourself kind of pulled

20:27

between the needs of the businesses and

20:30

then a willing and welcoming government

20:32

to help solve

20:34

them you know I think so far we've been

20:37

successful right you know a good example

20:40

of one of the things that we have been

20:42

huge advocates for is Idaho launch uh

20:45

continue to be advocates for Idaho

20:47

launch I think from the business sector

20:49

obviously Workforce and the talent is

20:52

you need the people without the people

20:54

we not successful um and you know that

20:57

has been a successful program

20:59

again I think it goes back to having

21:01

those relationships and you have to be

21:03

able to have conversations and you have

21:08

to know that maybe sometimes you're not

21:09

going to get exactly what you want but

21:11

maybe you hopefully you can meet in the

21:12

middle and so right now I think we've

21:15

felt pretty good right um you know as as

21:18

there's been things that we've advocated

21:20

for and I think we're going to continue

21:23

with that approach right is how can we

21:25

help move the process forward how can we

21:28

engage our members and the business

21:30

Community to help move things forward

21:33

how can we if you know there's things we

21:35

don't agree with how can we be at the

21:37

table to say okay this is why this is a

21:40

problem for the business Community how

21:42

can we work together to try to you know

21:45

come to Solutions and I know that

21:46

doesn't always happen right and uh I

21:49

think we've been fortunate you know in

21:51

this the past year that you know it some

21:54

of the things we really cared about

21:55

worked out in our favor and you know

21:57

we'll see as we're going into the next

21:59

legislative session of of things that

22:01

we'll be watching and following but it

22:04

is all just it's a it's kind of an

22:06

approach of how you take it and just

22:08

making sure we can be part of the

22:10

conversation is something that I know

22:12

we're going to really work hard on Yeah

22:15

you mentioned the upcoming legislative

22:17

session I know one of your goals in the

22:19

vision is you kind of took the lead at

22:21

the the Metro chamber was to have a

22:23

larger presence in the State House are

22:26

there certain and I know that that's

22:28

largely due to as you referenced the

22:30

importance of relationships it's not

22:31

there to twist arms it's it's there to

22:33

keep those relationships alive and well

22:34

but are there certain legislative issues

22:36

that you already know that the the

22:38

chamber is going to want to have a voice

22:40

on yeah I mean I I go back to Idaho

22:43

launch um Idaho launch will be one that

22:45

we continue to advocate for to ensure

22:47

you know it continues to get funded

22:50

that's a program that the business

22:51

Community just really supports so we

22:54

always watch those um you know urban

22:57

renewal there's typically always an

22:59

urban renewal Bill and those give us

23:00

some concern we like watching you know

23:03

we support tax cuts right those benefit

23:06

our businesses things related to

23:08

Transportation you know education I

23:10

think will be a big topic this year and

23:13

you know part of that is being present

23:15

is it's it's you know making sure you're

23:18

paying attention but you hear things by

23:21

that collaboration by talking to people

23:23

you gain information so you can better

23:25

relay that information to your members

23:27

about what's going on and try to have a

23:29

plan we have a policy committee that

23:32

meets once a week uh during the session

23:34

and they're a very active committee so

23:36

we're excited you know now that I've got

23:38

a gear under my belt and you know

23:40

feeling settled and and I'm really ready

23:43

for this session because I think it's

23:44

going to be fun and I've got a great

23:46

team here that is ready to kind of roll

23:48

up their sleeves and be part of it but a

23:51

lot of it too is to be present is you

23:52

gain so much information because you

23:54

hear things from people right it's you

23:56

know a pass in the hall or you see

23:58

someone or sometimes it's just giving

24:00

you're like oh what's that person doing

24:02

here right and uh so I think just being

24:06

around and present it's it's really

24:09

important and it just it'll allow us to

24:12

make sure we know exactly what's going

24:13

on so we can relay that to our

24:16

members yeah for for those listening who

24:19

uh whether they live in the Treasure

24:21

Valley or other parts of Idaho who have

24:23

suddenly gotten excited about the idea

24:25

of their local Chambers what what advice

24:28

would give for anybody who now wants to

24:30

participate business owner or

24:32

not yeah I would say you know reach out

24:35

to your local chamber and and just see

24:37

what they can offer you uh have that

24:40

conversation um it never hurts to ask

24:42

and explore things you know I think one

24:45

thing too I want to highlight is I go

24:48

back to Partnerships and working closely

24:51

with my treator Valley Chambers as a

24:53

priority of mine uh the chambers of so

24:57

boisey n Meridian in Caldwell yesterday

25:00

as I'm sure October 16th everyone knew

25:03

was National support your local Chamber

25:05

of Commerce day and so we did kind of a

25:08

progressive series of events all day

25:10

which was really fun and I'm excited

25:13

about that about that partnership right

25:16

you know is anyone who lives here knows

25:19

the Metro we're we're becoming just one

25:22

right and again working together we're

25:26

just better together and and so I'm

25:28

excited about those Partnerships but

25:30

yeah if you're interested or kind of

25:32

curious you know what a chamber could do

25:35

for you you know reach out go to an

25:37

event you know get go sit down and and

25:40

you might walk away say maybe that's not

25:43

for me but it might be an opportunity

25:46

that you're you want to

25:48

explore I love that great advice so

25:50

we've got a long list of things that

25:52

next time you come on the podcast when

25:54

when you have have the time we would

25:55

love to dive into but we know how busy

25:57

you are when we wrap up we want to make

25:59

sure that there's a tradition here on

26:01

the podcast we do with our guests for

26:02

their first time where we put them on

26:04

the spot and we quiz them on one book

26:06

they've read in their life that they

26:08

would recommend uh to anybody out there

26:11

so is there a book Bobby Joe that you

26:13

think would be lifechanging for any of

26:15

us oh my goodness a book that would be

26:19

lifechanging no pressure do you have any

26:23

Local Idaho

Episode 10 Kate Simonds—Main Street Idaho Podcast Season 3

Watch on YouTube
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Head of Lift Local Idaho, Kate Simonds, joins us for episode 10 of the Main Street Idaho Podcast. As an emerging leader in the Gem State, Simonds outlines the mission of Lift Local Idaho to improve quality of life, economic development, and inform Idaho communities of public policies. As Idaho continues to see growth from outside the state, Simonds advocates for local option taxes to give voters the agency to decide what their community needs.

Listen On Apple Podcasts
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Listen On Spotify
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Follow Along With The Transcript

0:00

welcome to the Idaho Main Street podcast where we talk about the issues that matter to

0:05

[Music] you welcome back to another episode of

0:12

the Idaho Main Street podcast we've got a pretty impressive guest here with us today an emerging leader in the Gem

0:18

State the the head and leader of Lyft local Idaho the one and only Kate Simons

0:26

how' we do I get all those words right Kate that was perfect Perfect Look at that okay we're off to congratulations

0:32

you're the first K Kate was briefing me beforehand and making sure that um I pronounced everything correctly and now

0:38

we can have fun because I said everything correct once so now if I mess it up again H that's okay right yeah

0:44

that's great it's what post productions for right perfect so Kate uh we're really excited to talk about your

0:49

organization today lift local Idaho all the great things you're doing in that space But first a little bit about you

0:55

born and raised in Idaho graduated from Timberline High School in boisee but then dipped off for a little bit and

1:02

educated at UC Berkeley what was that experience like going from education in

1:08

Idaho to then education at Berkeley of all places you know it was brutal and I

1:13

also think it's one of the best things that's ever happened to me uh it would be hard to imagine a more different

1:20

culture than going from from Idaho to to the Bay Area during the uh you know I

1:26

moved in in 2015 so it's during the the presidential election during black lives

1:32

matter uh during pretty significant culture shifts um in in the area and

1:38

across the country so I I really saw the spectrum of political ideology uh and it

1:45

was a you know like being being thrown into a uh thrown into a a pool with a lot of

1:54

sharks I would say but I learned so much I learned so much about myself I learned so much about my own beliefs

2:00

and uh I feel really grateful for my time there and also feel really grateful to to be back here because I think it

2:06

made me a lot better uh at my job yeah and I love the analogy of you in the

2:11

pool with the sharks I think at times we look in Idaho at the US versus them and

2:16

we have to Discount everybody that's not us but there is some significant value as you mentioned in in being somewhere

2:22

else and then particularly coming back home what was it about uh Idaho that

2:28

brought you back it's the quality of life I really think that I I measure this all the time you know I'm somebody

2:34

who's really Enchanted by I I've done a lot of travel and I'm somebody who you know every time I go to a new city in

2:41

the first five minutes of being there I think wow should I move and every time I touchdown back home I'm so grateful to

2:48

be here I'm so grateful to be able to be on my bike in five minutes to be on my

2:54

skis in half an hour uh I love saying hi to everybody uh on the street um it's

3:00

just a a great place to be and I I just know that anywhere else I might move in my life uh it would be an erosion of

3:08

quality of life so it's hard to imagine myself leaving yeah it it does take leaving to to appreciate home we had

3:14

sender r on the podcast and he talked about wanting to uh make it a requirement for every uh you know

3:21

college freshman or senior you know some in their youth to go live in a different country for a period of time I think he

3:27

particularly said a communist country he said they'll come back and appr apprciate the country and well that may be um a pretty Stark requirement I think

3:34

that whenever people travel they appreciate Idaho a little bit more yeah

3:39

yeah I mean I think it's important to leave also uh to appreciate other places and and recognize how we might grow um

3:47

that's kind of the the Crux of the work that we're doing is is focused on focused on growth and I've learned a lot

3:52

about what I think cities and communities could and should look like based on the Travel that I've gotten to

3:58

do so I'm really great for those experiences and um also really grateful for for the community that we we have

4:05

here and the diversity of communities that we have across our state yeah I think that's that's a beautiful preface to the work that Lyft local Idaho is

4:12

doing uh so this is an organization that that you lead that meets at this this perfect intersection of public policy of

4:21

Economic Development and of community in involvement or Community organization and those three things are all essential

4:27

parts of enacting institutional ch change but also just general Improvement of if you want to get things fixed and

4:33

better that's the place to be and that's where your organization is yeah that's a that's a beautiful

4:39

introduction to our organization I I get to tell people all the time that I think I have the best job in the State uh a

4:45

huge part of my job is getting to travel around the the state of Idaho a friend of mine jokes that I'm Idaho's Johnny

4:52

Cash because I've been literally everywhere uh I spend so much of my time on the road visiting various communities

5:00

uh you know I've been to dozens and dozens in the in the two years that I've been doing this and uh man I just really

5:06

I really love our state and I I love getting to be at the epicenter of that work uh and it's it's such a broad

5:12

conversation as well right like you mentioned that we work in quality of life we work in Economic Development we

5:18

work in public policy and what I've found is these are are really emotional

5:23

conversations because Ians are so protective over this these communities

5:29

that we've built and we're very protective over our quality of life which I think goes to show why the work

5:35

is so necessary and and so important um and it makes the it makes the job it makes the conversations really really

5:41

meaningful because I get to be one of the people one of the many people across the state doing this work uh getting to

5:48

help them protect that and and bolster that and despite all of the challenges that our communities are facing you know

5:56

relating to growth or not uh I get to be one of the people to say I'm I'm here to help you maintain what you love about

6:02

your community uh and it's it's just really influential work really impactful and for our younger listeners we'd

6:09

encourage you to go on Spotify and listen to the song I've Been Everywhere Man by Johnny Cash they're probably missed that

6:16

reference but I caught it don't worry Kate I caught it thank you now then walk us through a little bit about the

6:22

mission so lift local Idaho has a fantastic name right it uh envelops the

6:28

imagery of of elevation of of rising up and then The Branding is awesome the

6:33

logo everything's cool but that's really just the paper tiger of it uh there's actually a a meaningful and passionate

6:40

Mission talk to us about why that exists and why you care so much about it yeah

6:46

uh first of all thank you for complimenting our branding I can't take credit for that that was done by by our

6:51

friends at Drake Cooper here in boisee and what I love about our logo is we have a mountainscape like like many you

6:57

know nonprofits like many organizations based and Idaho have in their logos but what we have is a a corner cornered off

7:05

uh triangles making up this mountainscape which are meant to represent the different regions of our

7:11

state um and what I love about that is that Idaho is you know relatively small

7:17

we're I mean a big state geographically but we don't have that many people and what we know in this work that we've

7:23

that we've done and in the research that I've done is these regions could not be more different but together we have this

7:29

this this shared state that we're all really proud of so uh thank you for for complimenting the the logo I think it's

7:35

a it's a great one um but yeah our lift local Idaho we were we were founded in

7:41

officially in in 2023 unofficially in 2022 by Casey Lynch who is the CEO of uh

7:49

roundhouse and our mission is to give all voters in Idaho the choice and the tools to directly impact uh and address

7:56

their unique Community needs um and this is of course uh including but is a is

8:02

not uh limited to the expansion of local option Authority which is uh kind of our

8:09

our our big thing right now so we're focused on uh who can utilize local option Authority who might use it in the

8:15

future and what that might look like for the state so I care a lot about this work um because as I as I've said and as

8:23

as you introduced me I am a lifelong idahoan I love it here um and in my my

8:29

travels with this job I have had hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of conversations with idahoans across the

8:36

state whether they're you know concerned citizens their Business Leaders their

8:41

legislators their you know City administrators um whoever it might be

8:46

everyone really cares about Idaho everyone really cares about their community and they're also very aware of

8:53

the problems that their communities are facing idahoans are are in tune uh with

8:59

what's happening happening at home and they share those stories with me I carry those stories with me in in the work

9:05

that I do in the advocacy work that I do um and I I just care I care a lot about

9:10

about this work personally and selfishly I just I love it here I I want to

9:17

protect this state I want to protect the city that I live in um and I want to make sure that future Generations get to

9:23

enjoy it as much as as much as I did Growing Up So I'm really proud of the the work that we're doing and um really

9:30

hoping that we can continue with this mission of just letting cities have the ability to invest the in themselves the

9:37

way that they want to yeah and and when you talk about allowing these cities to

9:42

have the resources and tools they need to put government closer and closest to the people uh it feels good and it

9:49

mirrors a lot of what we see in campaign season when the Flyers show up in our mailbox and you know it seems like most

9:56

if not all candidates support local control and want to return as much power

10:01

back to their local leaders so you referenced um you know local taxing Authority uh you know the the ability

10:08

for taxing policy to be a solution to some of these growth challenges and for those of who aren't familiar with this

10:14

mechanism or this resource which is a vital part of what your organization is looking to do give us the oneone on it

10:22

sure so uh the tool itself is called a local option tax the formal name for it

10:28

is a non-property local option sales tax so what it looks like um in many of the

10:35

other states in the nation 37 of them including 56 of Idaho's neighbors the

10:41

exception being Oregon which does not charge any form of sales tax um it's also something that's used internally in

10:48

Idaho as well in 22 of our communities here those are all Resort uh Resort

10:54

cities with fewer than 10,000 people uh it's it's a local option tax so you

10:59

might you may have heard of it as a a penny tax or a tourist tax ultimately what it is is a tool where a city can

11:07

increase sales tax by a quarter percent up to a percent and that addition that

11:14

additional sales tax is maintained locally to be used on infrastructure and public service projects so a lot of the

11:21

time you'll see it for things like Street repair uh water police fire and

11:27

so on but what is unique about a local option tax is that is ex it is extremely

11:32

transparent the it is designed to be extremely transparent so it has to be voted on by the voters in in a specific

11:41

region so in you know various uh case studies across the country you see this happening at the city level at the

11:47

county level whatever ultimately voters have to know what the additional sales

11:54

tax is they have to know exactly what the project is or what the project projects are and the predetermined and

12:02

uh mandatory Sunset period so voters have all of that information before they are given the option to vote Yes or no

12:10

and ultimately the buck stops with them so a city like uh the city of Twin Falls

12:16

for example they're kind of our quintessential case study for what local option could look like in the state of

12:22

Idaho where they have a population of just over 50,000 people on any given day

12:28

in additional 100,000 people come into the city of Twin Falls which means that

12:33

public services are diluted for residents of twinfalls it also means

12:39

that property taxpayers in the city of twinfalls are paying for the infrastructure and public services to be

12:46

provided for the additional 200% of the population that comes in on any given day so they need more police they need

12:52

more fire they need more water they need more Broadband they need more education all of the things that fall within this

12:59

basket of infrastructure uh and so if the city of twinfalls wanted to they could increase sales tax by up to a

13:06

percent uh and that depends on on what the city of twinfalls would want to do and ultimately uh I have been told by by

13:15

um their team that that could raise up to almost $16 million a year for the

13:21

city to provide those services and the City of Twin Falls if they chose to uh

13:27

because they of course are already gener generating that funding in in property taxx Revenue they could potentially

13:33

decrease property taxes for the folks in their area by up to 40% so it really

13:39

looks like a diversification of of funds for the city um and so Twin Falls is is

13:46

a a really great example because they need this funding right they they want to provide the highest quality of life

13:51

possible for the folks the the residents in their area who are already paying these property taxes and and love the

13:58

city of twin Falls that they live in um in their most recent City survey they actually were able to ask this question

14:05

to their residents and say what do what do you think about two things one should we have the option to do this and two

14:12

would you vote Yes if if we were to put this on the ballot and what we saw was

14:17

that 70% of those respondents supported the idea of Twin Falls having the option

14:24

to ask their voters if they would like to enact the tax um and so we we know

14:29

that that is is a really popular idea um within cities and uh yeah we're we're

14:36

excited to be able to offer that as an option potentially and really become the forum for those for those discussions to

14:42

happen in all cities across the state whether they look like fnf Falls whether they are a University Town like

14:48

Pocatello like Rexburg like Moscow or whether they're a rural area with maybe

14:55

they've got a a pizza parlor and they need to stripe the the roads if they can

15:00

get a percentage of sales tax earned in their area that might be the uh be the

15:05

reason why they're able to maintain or improve the quality of life for the people who love and live there yeah I

15:12

think that's a great explanation of the tool is we dig in a little bit more to our our libertarian listeners uh they

15:18

love two-thirds of that right they love local they love option but you lost them at tax help us understand you you

15:25

referenced a few times the value of being able to reduce taxes out where you also referenced the tax burden shift I

15:32

mean and I'm binging the the Kevin Costner TV show Yellowstone and so a lot of this is ringing true of this idea of

15:38

having Outsiders come in and maybe take more of the tax burden than than the residents uh all this seems very nice

15:44

but why is this tax policy at times actually the fiscally conservative

15:51

option yeah thank you for thank you for asking that question you know a lot of the time you hear folks especially I

15:59

would say in in the state of Idaho saying that we should run government more like a business and the um the

16:06

truth of that if that if that were to be the way that things were right now in places like Twin Falls in places like um

16:14

I mean really any city that has any sort of it's on some sort of Transit Corridor maybe there's tourists whether they are

16:21

out of state or Regional you have people coming through town in a place like twinfalls for example where they maybe

16:28

have 200 to 250% of their population coming into their town on or the size of their

16:34

population coming into their town on any given day if it were a business it would mean that they're charging only a

16:41

quarter of the customers that walk through their door and so it doesn't make a lot of sense for us not to be

16:48

charging and diversifying who is paying for these infrastructure and those public services so from a business

16:54

standpoint that's that's the wrong thing to do right we also know that cities

16:59

because we are are limited they're Limited in what they can do uh to fund these infrastructure and public service

17:06

projects right they can either increase property taxes that's

17:11

the the tool that they have which is is limited right they can only do that up to a certain percent they can ask for

17:16

funding from the state or from the federal government which is not a not a popular choice either or they can

17:23

withhold from investing in in those Investments to begin with and we know

17:29

that delaying those maintenance costs can actually make those projects way more expensive down the road so the

17:35

number that I often I often see in my research is up to 600% projects can become up to 600% more

17:44

expensive if we kick the cost down the road uh and choose to deal with it at a

17:49

later point and that's just not something that is is the fiscally responsible choice right we know that

17:56

someone is going to have to pay for water services at some point someone is going to have to pay for roads for

18:04

police for fire for a new squad car whatever it might be uh and the right

18:09

choice the the cheapest Choice the the most fiscally responsible choice is to take on those costs as they come up um

18:16

not only because that's the best thing to do for for our residents and their quality of life but also because it's

18:22

the uh it's the cheapest choice and the timing of this matters because we have almost become a

18:28

inoculated to the phrase that Idaho is experiencing unprecedented growth to the point that we just kind of all accept it

18:35

but we almost all need to just take a breath and acknowledge that Idaho's unprecedented growth matters and at lift

18:42

local Idaho you you all talk a lot about how there's a right way to manage and

18:48

experience growth and there's a wrong way to grow and you know we're not we're not counting heads as people come in and

18:54

say okay sorry uh we're full for a little bit come back later it's coming and most these cities and these local

19:00

communities have to just inherently be reactive to it and as you reference the

19:05

idea of deferred maintenance and it's everything from you know roads and bridges to police and schools and all of

19:12

these complicated challenges that come as a result of growth what is the wrong way to manage growth and what is the

19:18

right way to manage growth right well the wrong way to manage growth is to ignore it and hope it doesn't happen and

19:24

I think that the truth of the situation and it it's it's hard for some people people to believe and it's it's hard for

19:30

some people to hear but Idaho is growing because Idaho is great and we've done a

19:35

really fantastic job building out a set of values that we all share we've done a

19:42

really great job building a quality of life that people are attracted to and people are moving toward uh families

19:48

want to be here young people want to be here um some retired people want to be

19:54

here of course businesses want to be here and if we ignore growth it means

19:59

that we are going to have skyrocketing property taxes later on we're going to have eroding infrastructure we're going

20:06

to have worsening traffic we're going to have overcrowded schools and we are going to have a quality of life that is

20:12

increasingly vulnerable and that is not going to affect whether or not people

20:17

move here people are going to move here because it's beautiful because we're familyfriendly because our economy is great we we know those things to be true

20:25

and so we know what we need to do is address that growth headon make sure that we're ready for it and make sure

20:31

that we have the systems in place and the tools in place to make sure that we're we're capable of handling that

20:36

growth when it comes and the local option tax is a key resource to help

20:42

manage that growth right it's one of the key resources to help manage that growth uh local option is is certainly not a

20:50

silver bullet for the state um you know not all of our our cities even have a

20:55

business that charges sales tax so it's it's not something that is a prescription it's not something that is

21:01

going to fix all of the infrastructure needs that we have so we know um because

21:08

uh of the research that we've done and we actually have a really cool tool on our website that we built out in

21:15

partnership with the association of Idaho cities and a group called Clearwater uh where we were able to

21:21

survey Idaho 200 cities and get a sense of what their infrastructure needs are

21:27

and we turned it into an interactive dashboard so it lives on our website and it's really cool because you can filter

21:33

by type of need by city by District by County by zip and really understand what

21:40

the needs are across the state um and what we found is first of all we have an enormous amount of needs at the at the

21:47

city level so uh with about 75 75% response rate we saw about $4.8 billion

21:56

in unmet infrastructure and public services needs uh so that's billion with with a B that is a a massive number and

22:03

is a I I think a bit of a jump scare it feels almost unfathomable how big that

22:08

number is but we also know that almost half of that is water related right

22:14

these are these are drinking water and and Wastewater needs and about 95% of water infrastructure is paid for

22:22

at the local level so that's scary right we know we have a lot of cities across the state have needs that will need to

22:30

be funded exclusively at at the local level and what we we learned is that

22:36

actually rural cities are disproportionately burdened with the task of taking that on because if you

22:42

have a town of 200 people your water project might

22:47

be $23 million it might be $30 million and if you have a larger population

22:52

you're able to distribute that amongst the population right who who pays for it but if you have a couple hundred people

22:59

there's no way that a small town like Gooding for example which is you know facing a um they they need a new a new

23:06

water infrastructure system they have a $23 million project the only way that

23:11

they are able to to do that is by potentially tripling the water bill for

23:18

the residents who live there so we know that local option is a is a great option

23:23

to be looking at for cities like Gooding cities like we see cities like Moscow

23:30

Rexburg Ammon cordelan um a lot of these Pocatello even a lot of these

23:36

communities that have a a tourist population flowing through whether they're there you know to go to they're

23:43

they're on their way into Utah they're going to Pocatello for a soccer game they're going up to Moscow for for

23:50

homecoming weekend or maybe they're doing what I did last weekend they're driving up Highway 95 and they stop into

23:58

to a gas station to uh get a snack and and fill up the tank on on the way up to

24:03

a work trip right there are people doing all having all kinds of movement across the state and if cities are able to

24:10

capitalize on that um as they as they should be right um then it will allow

24:16

them to help fund those infrastructure needs so it really is a conversation of

24:22

it it's not a conversation of should all cities have a local option tax it's

24:27

could they and and do they have the right to and that is the conversation that lifw Glo is is really uh excited to

24:34

facilitate so there are people listening right now who are hearing this and say yeah makes sense uh it gives the it

24:40

gives transparency it gives local power to local voters to decide whether or not that's a mechanism that they want to use

24:46

for funding and then the the question is with the percentage of approval that

24:52

you've talked about and just the common sense layout of of such a a fiscal policy why has there not been more

24:58

movement on this front yeah it's a it's a great question um you know I was up in

25:04

I was up in Moscow last week having a conversation with a bunch of businesses on on this exact topic and there was a

25:10

woman in the audience that said um you know I didn't really know what I was getting into today but I actually saw a

25:15

presentation similar to this in the 80s and it was uh you know it's funny right

25:22

it's it's clear that there have been a lot of people who have been shepherding this conversation for a long time time

25:28

and llo Glo is certainly not the first group to be taking this on and I'm in a

25:35

position where I get to look at at all of the efforts that have preceded me and

25:40

I get to assess what worked what didn't work what can we what can we do differently and that's why we're taking

25:46

such a unique approach we're a a business-led coalition first and foremost we're a nonprofit and I would

25:52

say arguably most most importantly we are we're Statewide and so we know that

25:58

there are a lot of people that have been left out of the conversation there are a lot of needs that did not exist

26:05

previously that are now at a Tipping Point uh and there are just a lot of people who have moved to the state since

26:10

these these conversations have previously happened that deserve to have a voice in this conversation so previous

26:16

efforts uh previous efforts have failed of course um which is which is why we're we're taking on this work now and I

26:24

would say the the answer to that question is because um despite unilateral or I guess

26:33

Universal excuse me um despite this sort of ubiquitous support from cities from

26:40

chambers from advocacy groups from Economic Development groups from citizens from people who are adjacent to

26:47

politics or adjacent to business folks who understand that our quality of life

26:53

is at risk and our infrastructure needs are reaching their their tipping points these are things that have been true for

27:00

a very long time yes the the severity of those needs has become more uh

27:06

significant yes the the salience of the topic has increased but ultimately the

27:12

reason why this has not been successful

27:17

legislatively is because the legislature has not wanted us to be successful we know that there are legislators who

27:24

believe and have believed for a long time that this is a decision that should not within within cities so it's a

27:30

really uh paternalistic relationship I would say between the legislature and and cities and cities are asking for

27:37

more cities have always been asking for more and this is this is why the conversation has been going on for

27:45

decades and decades at this point uh to which I respond with you know when are we when are we going to stop wasting

27:50

time talking about this if this is what cities are so desperate for if Idaho is really that much of a home rule state

27:57

then the legisl should take property tax relief seriously and infrastructure

28:02

funding seriously and let cities have what they're what they're asking for and have been asking for for decades um this

28:08

is within their power to to address those things with with one swipe um and they they haven't done so so uh we know

28:14

that there are a lot of legislators who are really eager to to work on this we recently finished our uh candidate

28:22

survey for the general election coming up I have heard from a lot of legislators that they're really excited

28:27

to work with us on this and that there are a lot of legislators who care a lot about the the communities that they

28:33

represent and so there's there's movement uh we know that progress is is incremental in this space and it's it's

28:40

really about moving the needle which is why we have set ourselves up to build a

28:45

a long uh a long on-ramp so we're not introducing legislation in 2025 uh we

28:51

might not introduce legislation in 2026 um we have a lot of relationships to build and frankly a lot of Education

28:57

work to do we know that the word tax is scary to folks and no one wants to be

29:04

charged more and we know that everyone is hurting right now and what we're our

29:10

primary focus is is really not to do not to do any harm so we have a lot of work to do to do the research we need to do

29:17

to make sure we're building a tool that will effectively work for for communities across the state and a lot

29:23

of uh education work to do and relationship building with legislators to get them to understand that yeah this

29:30

is something that has focused on boisey in the past it's something that has this tool the conversation around local

29:35

option has focused on things like transportation in the past and we're really hoping to be Shepherds of a much

29:43

broader conversation to discuss all infrastructure whether that's Transportation whether that's water

29:49

whether that's Public Safety whether that's education um and include all regions of the State uh to make sure

29:56

that this is something that ultimately you know will impact idahoans the way that we want it to so if I'm a legislator who doesn't

30:06

support um you know this this mechanism or or cities being having the autonomy to kind of make these decisions briefly

30:14

explain to us what my thought process is in opposition to this yeah well you know

30:19

the first thing I want to say is that it's fine if people don't want to have a local option in their city that is okay

30:25

it's not my job to tell a city what to do with their economy with their

30:31

money with their finances that's not up to me nor should it be right I'm not I'm not the Arbiter of this policy but I do

30:39

believe that every city should have the same toolbox regardless of what their economy looks like regardless of who's

30:46

in their City who's coming into their City who's leaving their City how many people live there what their industry is

30:52

we think that all cities should have all communities really should have the same access to tools

30:58

and that seems to me to be a pretty Idaho in value so I would first and foremost say to those legislators do you

31:06

agree with that right should every city have have equal access to these tools and ultimately whether a city chooses to

31:13

use this or not is up to them and I'm excited to be setting up a a long paper

31:19

trail of research for them to be successful with those campaigns should they choose to endure them later on uh

31:27

but right now again the conversation should focus on should cities have the right should communities have the right

31:32

should Counties have the right to even ask their residents this question so the

31:38

the Crux of this isn't necessarily okay do you agree or disagree that your city should have this tool um the answer is

31:46

that not every city it doesn't make sense economically for every city to be able to utilize this and what is so

31:52

great about the tool itself is and the way that it works now and what we're hoping to expand is that it is extremely

31:59

malleable so you look at a an area like um Valley County you know you have Mcall

32:05

you have Cascade you have Donley all of these communities have the ability to utilize local option all of them apply

32:12

it differently and use the funds differently based on what their Community needs and where they're

32:18

getting their financing where those tourists are are coming from and so that's really what we're we're hoping to expand is let cities do what they do

32:26

best which is know themselves right so that is the first thing that I would want to to say to a legislator in

32:32

opposition is okay great uh if if this is something

32:37

that you're personally opposed to that's fine maybe your city is opposed to it as well maybe your population is opposed to

32:43

it in addition that's fine but shouldn't we all have equal access to the tool and

32:49

I believe that most legislators would say yes no legislation coming so all of our

32:54

legislative listeners can take a deep breath knowing that you're not going to come knocked down on their door with with a piece of legislation but to

33:00

listeners who the listeners who are suddenly uh born again now when it comes

33:06

to local option tax and just these General conversations surrounding uh

33:11

growth and empowerment of cities what can we do H how do we get involved is there a spot for us in the

33:18

Coalition first of all I love the phrase uh Born Again local option supporters that's

33:23

hilarious I'm hoping I'm hoping to convert all of you um yeah there's a there a few ways that that you can get

33:29

involved the first thing is just having a conversation with me as I've said I spend a lot of time on the road getting

33:36

to travel the state and I would love to come speak to to you to whoever's

33:41

listening um reach out to me and and let's let's have a conversation about what your what Your Community needs are

33:49

and if local option might be uh might be a good tool for for your community so I

33:55

often speak in you know various settings I'll speak with Chambers I'll I'll do presentations even down to things like

34:02

lions groups for Lions Clubs um I'm all over the place and would love to would love to to come to your community it's

34:09

it's my favorite part of my job so reach out to me uh join the Coalition if you'd like to there's a a few tiers of of ways

34:16

that you can be involved whether you're a a supporter an advocate or a champion

34:22

and ultimately that just looks like joining the conversation and and doing what we can to to educate folks on on

34:29

what this might look like uh in the years to come and to learn more your

34:34

website is lift loal idaho.org lift loal idaho.org and the best part of Kate

34:41

coming to visit is not only is she gonna speak but she's gonna bring her dog

34:46

olive and Olive is a Springers spanel adorable we were bonding earlier on our love for Springers now Kate since this

34:52

is your first time on the podcast there's a few things we have to do to initiate you number one is we got to commit you to coming back next time we

34:58

got to get you in studio because you've been everywhere so you're going to have to come here in studio and have an interview so that's step number one

35:03

perfect do I get a walk song yeah it's gonna be uh Johnny Cash so you got it but we expect you in Black

35:10

next time all in black okay that's a Johnny Cash reference for our younger listeners that was not me telling

35:15

anybody what they should and shouldn't wear okay number two uh you've been everywhere so we have to know as you've

35:21

been traveling through Idaho what is one little hole-in-the-wall restaurant that you've been to that you would recommend

35:26

if somebody is traveling through through that town they need to try that place this feels

35:33

proprietary you can add a you can add a disclaimer I do I I have a I have a list

35:38

on my phone of of spots that I found whether they're I I love I love Hot

35:43

Springs um I'll I'll visit different hot springs or different Trails um I love to

35:50

uh you know put the put the skis in the car the bike on the car and um ex get to

35:55

explore our our our state as we uh as I as I take on these work trips um let's

36:03

see oh I think it was in the vice presidential debate one of the candidates looked at the other and said that is a daming non-answer and that's

36:09

what I'm going to throw at you Kate is that was a daming non-answer I don't want to give away my spot that's all

36:15

right well how about you what what's worse uh giving us your favorite Hot Springs locations or your favorite

36:21

restaurant locations I don't know the answer to

36:27

that okay there there's a really really great Hot Springs between

36:33

um I don't know if I can give this to you brenon all right well we're gonna we're gonna work on some trust okay

36:40

let's build some trust here on some trust um let's it uh you know what I

36:45

this is this is a really is not a unique answer but I love

36:51

to get a hot fudge milkshake at my father's place uh after skiing at Brundage or after any sort of uh

36:59

activity near Mcall so we'll use that answer we're gonna take that now the second question gets

37:06

harder so if you struggled with that that one we're in big trouble Kate book

37:11

recommendation one book that you would recommend our Millions our hundreds of millions of listeners right now uh I

37:18

mean List yep we got a lot of people listening what is the one book you would recommend that everybody needs to go out

37:24

and read because it will change their life does it need to be Idaho related I

37:29

I mean I read a lot of books on a on tax policy these days um that director Adams

37:38

when we had him on he told us about reading about regulations to his daughter to put her to sleep at night so

37:44

if it's something as dry as that we'll take it but we will also judge you in the process no no no I I've got I've got

37:50

interesting uh let me think you know I

37:59

I love I'm gonna you know what I'm going to do is I'm going to uh highlight a a local author uh I really really loved

38:07

Cloud cucko Land by Anthony dor uh who uh identified a a fake mountain town uh

38:16

in Idaho and a lot of this book takes place in it and it's it's about you know

38:22

protecting the natural environment it's about um doing what we can

38:28

to create and protect a sense of home uh and I just I just really loved it um so

38:35

I'm going to say cloud cucko Land by by Anthony dor Cloud Cuckoo Land yeah all

38:40

right well we can we haven't had that one come up yet very much about supporting our public libraries which is

38:47

something that I'm really passionate about so uh shout out shout out Tony door and uh and our our public libraries

38:54

and our public spaces I love it Kate you have been so so generous with your secrets today as well as your time we

39:00

appreciate your inaugural session on the Main Street podcast we've got you committed to coming back and coming in

39:05

studios we love what you've taught us today about the power of local control and the ability and tools that can be at

39:11

people's disposal this is the first of many conversations as you go out and build relationships we hope that we too

39:17

can be at the table and help you in your endeavors but until then thank you so much and we'll look forward to seeing

39:22

you and the adorable little puppy next time you got it see you Idaho Falls

39:27

thanks Kate [Music]

Eric Stamps 10/17/24 Eric Stamps 10/17/24

Idaho Education

Episode 9 Idaho Superintendent Debbie Critchfield—Main Street Idaho Podcast Season 3

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Joining us in-studio for episode 9 of the Main Street Idaho Podcast is Idaho Superintendent of Public Instruction, Debbie Critchfield. The Superintendent makes a pit stop to Idaho Falls while touring throughout Idaho educational facilities for her quarterly evaluations. Among the recent funding improvements for schools and infrastructure passed by the Idaho Legislature, Critchfield outlines her own recommendations to bolster school safety, how to handle excessive student absences, and promoting parent choices for their children's education.

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…..

Eric Stamps 10/9/24 Eric Stamps 10/9/24

Peace Making

Episode 8 MWEG Director Emma Addams—Main Street Idaho Podcast Season 3

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The Idaho Main Street Podcast takes the show on the road to Salt Lake City, Utah, to chat with the Director of the Mormon Women for Ethical Government. Addams details the beginnings of the nonprofit organization, as well as its goals to empower women from all denominations to approach government ideology through a lens of ethical peace making.

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Eric Stamps 10/7/24 Eric Stamps 10/7/24

Improving Child Welfare

Episode 7 Alex Adams—Main Street Idaho Podcast Season 3

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The newly elected Director of the Idaho Health & Welfare Department, Alex Adams, is our special guest for episode 7 of the Main Street Idaho Podcast. As the former Budget Chief for Governor Little, Adams lends his background leading the zero-based regulation initiative to discuss how the Idaho Legislature has streamlined regulatory processes. He additionally highlights the immediate steps he's taken as the new director to improve child welfare for adoptions and foster care.

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Follow Along With The Transcript

0:00

Welcome to the Idaho Main Street podcast where we talk about the issues that matter to

0:05

[Music]

0:10

you welcome to the Idaho Main Street podcast we are fortunate today uh to have a fantastic guest somebody who has

0:18

a great reputation throughout the state former budget chief for governor little and recently named director of the idah

0:24

Health and Welfare Department none other than Alex Adams Mr Adams thanks for joining us glad to be here thanks for

0:30

having me we were just reminiscent on uh we met at a you know a rambunctious and

0:35

exciting party reorganization meeting where neither of us uh needed to be there and we got to be like the two

0:41

Muppets that sat up and ate the popcorn and watched the show it's been a it's been a fun Journey

0:48

working with you over the years yeah we've come a long way from then uh you know you've got a reputation not just in

0:54

boisee but throughout the state as somebody who's a doer and I'm excited to get into a lot of the accomplishments

0:59

that been able to have your fingerprints on certainly you know your boss Governor little uh you worked for him it was his

1:05

leadership but but your fingerprints when we talk about the governor's Legacy we'll be on a lot of it and I think the

1:11

biggest one we always hear about is the way that Idaho became the least regulated state in the nation talk us

1:18

through how that came to be I I imagine it wasn't just a a one light bulb moment that you all sat down and said hey maybe

1:24

we should cut all this government red tape but but give us some insight to how we got to that point yeah I mean it it's

1:31

talking about Journeys I mean that also has been uh quite the journey and something that evolved over time so I

1:37

mean kind of my background prior to becoming the budget director for the governor I used to just be a simple pharmacist you know dad Grandpa Great

1:44

Grandpa all pharmacists I pursued the the pharmacy profession and you know Pharmacy's one of the most regulated

1:50

professions at the state level so I always say you know all you have to do is read your 100 or so pages of Pharmacy

1:56

law and suddenly you'll have libertarian tendencies because you know many of them

2:01

don't make sense you know in a lot of States you know they get as granulars detailing how many square feet you have

2:07

to have per employee and things like that so my first job in state government was running the Board of Pharmacy and we

2:15

took our law book from a 100 pages of regulations down to about 25 and in so

2:20

doing you know demonstrated that if you cut regulations if you get government out of the way good jobs follow and

2:27

there's no uh you can do so without having any public uh safety issues so we

2:32

got rid of you know 75% of our regulations at the Board of Pharmacy and then we started to see Amazon moved some

2:39

of their Central operations to the state CVS moved some of their Central operations to the state uh we had

2:44

pharmacies including you know in Eastern and Rural Idaho uh open Tel pharmacies

2:49

to expand access to communities that had never had pharmacies uh for quite some time and you know kind of became one of

2:56

those success stories for regulatory reform so uh fast forward new governor gets

3:02

elected in Fall of 2018 and uh when he asked me to run the

3:07

the Budget Shop one of the conversations we had was federally uh the the federal budget shop OMD the office management

3:14

budget oversees both budget and regulation so we started the conversation about could there be more

3:21

of a regulatory role for the budget job similar to what has happened uh

3:26

federally and if you remember the governor's first state of the state speech um he announced that regulatory

3:33

reform was going to be one of the priorities of his administration and he uh announced that he would be doing an

3:39

executive order uh with a two to one regulatory cut any new regulation had to

3:45

be offset by a cut in two regulations kiring what the Trump administration had

3:50

done the year prior and my recollection this might be you Wishful revisionist

3:56

history is that was the loudest Applause line of that entire State of the State so um probably a

4:04

selfs serving recollection but uh uh it was one of the first things he did it

4:10

was one of his first executive orders that he signed upon taking uh his his governorship so it was a deliberate um

4:18

approach and wanted to replicate frankly what we had done at the Board of Pharmacy across All State agencies I

4:25

don't know that uh anyone thought it would become what it did but uh that's that's where some of us becomes happy

4:32

accident so Idaho under its administrative procedures act had a

4:37

provision that all regulations have to be renewed by the legislature annually so usually at the end of every

4:42

legislative session there's kind of a throwaway bill that was run saying every regulation that precedes this date uh

4:49

continues for the next year and uh for one reason or another in 2019 um the legislature did not pass

4:57

that going home bill so every regulation sunset on June 30th of 2019 so that kind of took the governor's

5:06

uh preconceived notion about regulatory reform in the executive order that he issued and frankly put it on steroids

5:12

and it flipped the script in a way that was really healthy rather than having to look at regulations and find those that

5:19

we thought didn't make sense and then go through a process to get them off the books every regulation was going to die

5:26

by default and then agencies had to expend effort justifying what they

5:32

wanted to keep flipping that burden of proof was an absolute GameChanger no longer did energy and effort have to be

5:38

expended deciding what to cut now energy and effort had to be expended deciding

5:44

what to keep and suddenly drawers of regulations were no longer necessary I

5:50

mean things as flippant or silly as a dress code for Deputy State veterinarians or female kickboxing

5:57

uniforms or a chapter of regulations on snails that didn't exist in our state suddenly we didn't need those and um

6:04

Governor said you know this is a healthy process you know let's flip that script permanently and he set up you know an

6:10

orderly process through a new executive order called zerob based regulation and here we are yeah here we are and the the

6:17

idea of flipping that burden of proof I think is is fascinating uh for those of us that you know weren't in the room

6:23

where it happened but if it were easy I think governors in past would have done

6:28

it I I I think maybe you you might have simplified a little bit how difficult actually was it to be able to sift out

6:35

these are necessary regulations we need to hold on to and then these ones uh we might be able to let slip you know

6:42

everybody's definition of necessity differs slightly so you know I think

6:47

what what the governor did really well is he set up different accountability mechanisms So within each agency he made

6:53

each agency designate a rules review officer because there's a lot of agencies my current one included that

6:59

has many different divisions you've got a division of Public Health a division of Medicaid a division of public or

7:05

Behavioral Health and child welfare and you want a singular person who has

7:10

responsibility across all of those to kind of be that neutral checkpoint on what really is necessary versus what is

7:18

not I would say the first year was probably the easiest because I mean

7:24

agencies in Idaho have been issuing regulations since you know 50s 60s and

7:29

there had been a lot that just accumulated over time and clearly were not necessary but nobody took the time

7:35

and energy to take them off the books so yeah there's there's a say that I've adapted for regulations it's regulations

7:42

rise like rockets but fall like feathers it's a lot easier to add them than it is to take them off because of that I mean

7:50

some of the the silly ones I mentioned earlier we had you know a lottery game show that uh was envisioned in the 80s

7:57

but never aired you know just a lot of things like that all of those came off the books on June 30th 2019 so that

8:03

first cut was the deepest to borrow a song title I mean I think Governor got rid of 1,800 pages of regulations that

8:12

first year now again most of those were Silly most of those were unnecessary so you could debate how much incrementally

8:19

Freer was Idaho by getting those off of the books what I think it did is it got

8:25

the fluff away and put a a brighter Spotlight on what remains and when you put a brighter Spotlight on

8:31

what remained and then you chunk it up like zero based regulation did where 20%

8:37

of all rules sunset in any given year and the agency has to go through the process of

8:46

rejuso Reform that we've seen a lot of work went into uh reforming our

8:51

occupational licensing Rags we're now top 15 in the country in terms of Occupational licensing we pushed hard on

8:57

our Charter regulations we're now top 10 in Charter School regulations in the country so I think clearing away the

9:02

fluff getting rid of the filler putting a brighter Spotlight on what remains created an orderly process uh by which

9:10

regulations can now be properly vetted and discussed with the public and all necessary stakeholders moving forward U

9:18

it's worked so well you know I've got this chart where again it shows about uh

9:24

you know from from 96 uh to 2018 average was about 100 pages regulations being

9:30

added Statewide then you take 1,800 pages off we had a moratorium here and

9:35

then zerob based regulation we're cutting you know two to 300 Pages annually now under this and regulation

9:41

is at the lowest level in recorded Idaho history and what's crazy too is there's you know some national groups that

9:47

publish like regulatory indexes and Idaho keeps widening our Gap we're already the least regulated State and we

9:54

keep going down other states are generally growing just at lower Paces but the gap of our deregulation is widen

10:01

and what what's you know probably the most important thing to note and this is a testament to how Governor L set up the

10:08

process there's no documented instances where regulation has been removed that

10:13

uh led to Patient harm you occasionally see snark online where you know an incident happen somewhere in the state

10:19

and somebody says that's because we're the least regulated State the incidents that they're referring to had no overlap

10:26

generally with uh state regulations so I mean I think uh the way zbr was set up

10:32

uh did it the right way for the right reasons and it's paying off dividends and you know I attribute that to some of

10:37

the draw of businesses reloca Idaho remote workers wanting to live in a low regulatory State the cost of doing

10:44

business here the friction of doing business here and I I think it's had a very positive feedback loop yeah and I I

10:51

appreciate the the context there that you know a lazy Governor could just cut every regulation and we would see really

10:57

some probably dangerous side effects of as you mentioned patient harm uh but the

11:04

goal of this was to lighten the heavy hand of government you referenced It generally the positive effects of it can

11:10

you give us some specifics as you talk about what kind of businesses came in you referenced when it came to the the

11:15

work on the pharmacy and the these businesses coming what have you seen overall as some of the effects of what

11:20

the governor's done with cutting the red tape yeah so uh what's interesting about regulations I mean you know I'll I'll

11:27

give you a preamble to answering your specific question every regulation has to be authorized by a statute so

11:34

legislature passes statutes and then agencies promulgate rules to fill in the details of those statutes so rarely are

11:40

you going to hit a home run or a grand slam through deregulatory generally you're hitting Texas League signals and

11:46

occasionally double if you will so I mean you almost have to go chapter by chapter you know agency by agency so

11:53

I'll tell you some of the singles or the the the doubles that i' I've seen child care my agent regulates child care we

12:00

used to have a ratio of 8 to1 for non-infants we expanded it to 9 to1 for non-infants study after study nationally

12:07

shown there'd be no safety issues for non-infants but what it did is with a

12:13

stroke of a pen we have 6 to 700 daycare Statewide that adds six to 700 seats to

12:19

daycare Statewide for no additional investment the state put0 and0 cents in

12:25

and conceivably could expand daycare seats 6 to 700 Statewide

12:30

any of your listeners have kids they know the weight list and the challenge of finding suitable daycare so I would

12:35

contend that that that created opportunities that didn't exist otherwise quite a bit with telea health quite a bit with h physician assistant

12:42

to physician ratios uh quite a bit to make it easier for retired nurses to come back to the profession just given

12:49

you know some of the the burnout that we saw during covid if you go to a athletic event at boisey State and have enjoyed a

12:56

beer while while cheering on the Broncos that was a regulation there used to be a regulation prohibiting alcohol sales at

13:04

those types of events and now it's probably one of the more popular things to do with those events so you know just

13:10

you know expanded use of technology for hunting and fishing and you know things like that so um what was really

13:19

impressive with how Governor little unveiled this is ultimately the governor

13:24

is not uh adopting regulations regulatory Authority is vested in the agencies and often boards and getting

13:31

the agencies and the boards uh to build this into their DNA and make this part of their agency ethos and you know him

13:38

to reinforce it through cabinet meetings and through uh uh his staff reinforcing

13:44

it as they met with agency heads it's uh what I I made a chart one time I should

13:49

dig it out but you know there's about 60 agencies naho that had rule making Authority they could issue

13:56

regulations um from 2012 to 2018 uh only like five agencies out of

14:02

those 60 had a net reduction in regulations through that time and I will proudly say the Board of Pharmacy which

14:08

I ran was one of those after the implementation of zero based regulation

14:13

every single agency in the state cut regulations on the net and they've sustained it over the five and a half

14:19

years the governor has been in office every single agency um so there's not one that has added regulations since

14:26

this Governor's been in office in fact the average state wies about a 3 uh2 33%

14:32

cut um it varies some agencies get 100% of their regulations I was one of those agencies at dfm and then when I ran the

14:38

charter commission we get 100% uh there's other agencies I think the low is like 18 to 20% Then you look at those

14:45

agencies like oh yeah that makes sense 18% cut at the board of sex offender management yeah that makes sense we

14:51

don't want to let cut a lot of regulations a 20% cut at the Department of Environmental Quality that makes

14:57

sense you know they do some uh pretty important things with air and water quality and we don't want to seed our

15:02

Authority back to the EPA in their ham-handed ways so you know what what's really cool is every agency took it

15:09

seriously made a meaningful difference gave a good story to tell within their Industries but did so responsibly

15:16

working with the public working with the regulated Community working with the stakeholders to make sure that safety

15:22

issues did not materialized yeah you've got to be thrilled looking back at how that process played out

15:29

I Source you know some of the stuff behind me is you know the big pair of scissors uh demonstrating our cut so but

15:37

you know the the coolest thing is if you talk to any of these agencies or you talk to the governor I mean a lot of the

15:42

philosophy is and we're still just getting started we've got two more years left to zero based regulation then the

15:48

legislature ins sconed it and law to make it a permanent process moving forward so I think you'll see that trend

15:54

line continue to to chip downward love it yeah and our small business owners listening will be excited by that um I

16:00

guess uh now I just recently learned Alex where the term red tape comes from are you familiar with it uh didn't they

16:07

used to buy government documents and red tape it's exactly it yeah and so the the

16:12

the term is to get to the heart of the government problem and get it get the get the bureaucracy out of the way is

16:18

you cut the red tape to get into the documents a fun fact for the day now then you not only were involved in a lot

16:25

of regul deregulation and you communicated very well the by product of that for the average idahoan but you're

16:31

involved in a significant number of legislative priorities and issues and we don't have the time to get into a lot of

16:37

them but needless to say a large part of your job working for the governor was dealing with the legislature

16:43

particularly jfac anything that had anything to do with funding you you kind of to lend your voice too you were you

16:50

know in the the metaphorical room where it happens you were cutting deals and trading horses and you were involved in

16:56

a lot of really big things that weren't necessarily uh that couldn't have

17:01

happened unless you made them happen talk us through the philosophy of what it's like working across an ideological

17:07

Spectrum in the legislature with very different personalities knowing that you needed for the governor to be able to

17:14

cut deals and get the get the ball across the Finish Line yeah I mean I I

17:19

would say I I had an easy job because my boss Governor little uh was a budget guy

17:25

by by heart I mean he would always talk about um he intered for jfac our joint finance and Appropriations Committee in

17:31

the 1970s and he would talk about how we had to calculate budget documents and fund shifts and all those things by hand back

17:38

then so he knew the budget in and out perhaps better than anyone in the state

17:43

which made it a lot easier for me to to do my job um we would know coming into a

17:49

session what his priorities would be and he also knew like the governor also had

17:55

been in and around the legislature for years interned for it in the 70s his dad served in the body he served in the body

18:01

he presided over the Senate as lieutenant governor he knew that the way to get things done was to work together

18:08

and not presume uh to have uh all of the answers so we would generally come into

18:14

the session with a concept like this last session Governor wanted to make a big uh investment in school facilities

18:20

he announced over a billion dollars in funding for school facilities you know and we didn't come in with a bill

18:28

pre-draft if we would have had our own school facilities Bill and say this is the bill and only this is the bill we would not

18:34

have been successful what the governor did really well is he would outline general concepts of things that were

18:40

important for the state and they were generally in tune with what uh the electorate wanted and therefore the

18:46

legislature was interested in and he would also limit how many asks we had in any given session because he knows you

18:52

can only do a couple big things in any legislative session so he would outline

18:58

big Concepts and the dollar amounts and fit those within a structurally balanced

19:03

budget where we wouldn't be taking on debt we wouldn't uh be making short-term moves and uh then gave his staff the

19:11

latitude to work with the legislature but then would involve himself in a very Hands-On manner working with legislators

19:18

uh working on uh you know uh statutory language and things like that so I I

19:23

would say my job was Made Easy by uh by my boss and I was fortun

19:29

to have somebody who is that uh ingrained in in the budget process

19:34

what's something about the working with the legislature that most of our listeners probably wouldn't

19:40

understand how committed they are I mean I I I think you know uh there's a

19:45

tendency you know for some of the Oddities to to attract headlines I if you think of some of the headlines this

19:52

last session I mean how many things did you read about cannibalism and whatnot but you know if if you're in the

19:58

legislative Arena if you're going to legislative hearings daily you're going to find a lot of committed folks who are

20:04

public servants at heart who are there to do the right things for the right reasons and you know too much of the

20:10

reporting is on the horse race aspect of it or The Oddities aspect of it and not

20:16

enough about the day-to-day stuff I mean there were so many good bills that passed in recent years that you know

20:22

frankly never got the coverage they deserved I remember tax credits for child care and you know things like that

20:29

that people probably don't know really happen but um there's a lot of solution oriented problem solvers and um we were

20:37

fortunate to work with many of them to to get some good things done for the people of Idaho yeah that's I love that

20:44

message we we talk a lot on the podcast of the damages of only covering like the

20:49

salacious the loud the you know because that draws eyes and attention and that's what but sometimes the boring stuff is

20:55

the most important stuffff and you kind of lend it there so love love hearing that let's talk about the new gig you

21:01

got named as the Director of the Department of Health and Welfare for those that don't know this is a very

21:07

large operation you're running over there over 3,000 employees a budget of what over five and a half billion

21:13

dollars is that right yeah exactly right so h i mean talk to us how you felt when you first uh I assume the governor

21:20

approached you on it yeah I mean um my background was Healthcare as I said I started my career as a pharmacist so in

21:26

many ways this is Back to the Future for me um I I saw an opportunity here I

21:32

don't think any Department in the state well there's no Department as big in terms of size or budget uh but it's also

21:39

an agency that touches so many lives often at their most vulnerable time of need we run child welfare we run

21:44

Medicaid we run food stamps we run um you know programs to help people with

21:49

car repair and other things that you just wouldn't expect uh through Department uh of of Health and Welfare

21:56

and you know these programs need to work they need to work well and um I I

22:03

thought I might be uniquely positioned to make a difference just giv kind of my background experience in state

22:09

government getting things done as well as kind of the the health care interest and and passion well you didn't waste

22:15

much time I mean it was day one uh you got to work you lived up to the reputation as a doer uh you immediately

22:23

came in and there were some positions uh 100 plus positions that were vacant that you recognized as redundant and

22:29

unnecessary and so you cut cut those positions but um more importantly you started doing some work with adoptions

22:36

and Foster uh that I think drew a lot of well-deserved positive attention anybody who's dealt with foster homes or

22:42

adoptions it they view it from a different lens but not enough people have dealt with it so I think it's

22:48

important for for you to help those that are not aware of what's going on in Idaho with uh Foster hor shortages or

22:53

the adoption costs walk us through what you've already done and what you plan on doing then

22:59

yeah well um because of an agency of this size um if you try to do everything

23:04

you're not going to do everything well I mean a lot of what I've I've tried to do is I said in addition to my start doing

23:10

list I want all my Deputy directors and division administrators to have stopped doing list so that we can take off

23:16

things that are less important less necessary because I want my team to spend a disproportionate of time energy

23:22

and focus on improving child welfare so uh and that's child welfare broadly uh

23:29

but in terms of where I started adoption and Foster Care was the initial focus on day one uh hour one minute one I waved

23:37

all fees for adoption uh through the department I don't want there to be any barriers to adoption of children in the

23:44

custody of the department and knowing what uh adoptive parents go through I didn't want application fees I didn't

23:50

want home study fees I didn't want there to be any barriers to entry to somebody who wants to open their home and their

23:55

heart uh to a child in need and then foster care um we have about 1,400 kids

24:02

in foster care and 1100 K uh families to take care of them um simply put we need

24:09

more Foster families uh so we've engaged in what I kind of call the colon Powell

24:14

shock and awe approach to have a total agency focus on improving uh foster care

24:21

we cut red tape and Licensing and got rid of some of the silliness we used to have a rule about having a 4 foot fence

24:26

around bodies of water if you're going to be a foster parent makes sense for Pools and Hot Tubs how many rural Idaho

24:33

properties have you driven by a 4- foot fence along the entire irrigation or Canal so we got rid of a lot of that uh

24:39

we worked with Governor little to do paid family leave for foster parents um

24:45

we uh are doing Innovative Partnerships like we're sending out free parks passes

24:50

through generous contribution from region Blue Shield and Idaho businesses for the outdoor to get uh opportunities

24:56

for family bonding for foster family and just kind of recreate you know a traditional family environment and since

25:03

I started when I started we had about 74 Foster families for every 100 foster kids as of Monday this week we're at 85

25:09

Foster families for every hundred foster kids so things are moving in the right direction but we've got a long way to go

25:17

um I don't want to give the impression that we're doing this alone a lot of this has been because of the thoughtful

25:25

oversight of of the legislature part why this was on my radar screen was

25:30

legislative oversight hearings that have happened this year and in recent years legislative oversight reports from the

25:36

office performance evaluation so I think you know to the extent my leadership

25:41

team has had success in this issue is it's because we're standing on the shoulders of a lot of committed passionate legislators who have brought

25:48

this topic to the Forefront and said we can and must do better uh just this this past session I I believe it was

25:55

representative Rael ran a bill designed to address the too many kids that we had in short-term rentals in congregate care

26:02

settings and I would I would be remiss if I didn't say that bill is working the

26:08

number of congregate care kids has gone down precipitously uh since I started because some of the parameters uh that

26:14

were outlined in that bill so I mean this has truly been an area where the legislature uh through oversight and

26:21

through issue attention has done a good job of bringing this issue to the Forefront and me having a leadership

26:27

team that had some ability to execute it within state government with a very supportive Governor cheering us on along

26:35

the way and nudging us along the way is it the fact that you're a father

26:40

have a have a of a child at home does that play a role in in prioritizing the importance of child welfare or is are

26:47

you able to switch hats as clean as some can well without a doubt it plays a role I mean my daughter's five and a half and

26:54

it's really important to her that I reveal the half and and uh she you know

27:00

I look at the opportunities that she has by virtue of what my wife and I do and and the supportive family structure that

27:07

we have and you know frankly the fact that we have local grandparents to watch her during the day or pick her up from

27:12

soccer practice not everybody has that and I'm mindful of that and I want every

27:17

child to be able to grow up in a loving home a supportive home a nurturing home and have the resources that they need to

27:24

develop and grow and be successful and so I I I think you know my focus on

27:29

child welfare is intimately you know connected to my my own family circumstances and um you know I it's not

27:38

lost on me uh that what I want for her I want for every child in the state of

27:43

Idaho I and I I think many parents listening can appreciate that I I recently started studying about you know

27:50

certain presidents of what their intention was when they came into office and how that changed once things happen

27:55

in office I think a great example that is George W who had these great domestic plans and then 911 hits and everything

28:01

changes that's maybe uh somewhat comparable to what happened to your predecessor who uh could not have

28:07

predicted what a pandemic would do to to that department are there things like that that keep you up at night where you

28:14

think okay what knowing how vast the responsibilities of your department are do you are you concerned about what

28:20

could come yeah so you know when I prepared for this job I actually got calls from you know several other state

28:29

uh Health and Welfare equivalent directors uh was able to chat with a former US Secretary of Health and Human

28:35

Service and everyone says come in with your priorities but know that circumstances will always be foisted

28:41

upon you that might take you away from those and you have to work with your Governor your governor's office the

28:46

legislature to determine when do you have to Pivot from those there's no question that covid dominated uh State

28:53

Health and Welfare agencies uh you know from 2020 through 2023 and frankly

28:58

Health and Welfare agencies used to kind of be sleepy backend you know agencies that existed but were not front-facing

29:05

you know highly visible and I think it forever changed how people will look at

29:10

State Health departments and in so doing we have to be mindful of that we have to be mindful of the increased transparency

29:17

on us and the increased accountability that taxpayers deserve uh from us so you

29:23

know while I've focused on child welfare you know one of the things we talk about as a leadership team is what would take

29:29

us off that course what would cause us to pivots I mean you know we've been tracking h5n1 we've been tracking you

29:35

know a lot of the ambient conversations out there and you know making sure that

29:41

um we're following we're responding to appropriate events uh but um we're

29:47

fortunate that we've been able to maintain a high energy a high octane offense on child welfare for the three

29:53

months that I've been here and uh intend to continue that until circumstances

29:58

dictate otherwise yeah and there are many of us who are cheering on from the sidelines

30:04

as we've watched you you know not just in this role but previous roles come in and exercise leadership and advocate for

30:11

causes that we care about is it your preference that those of us who want to see you succeed just uh Advocate through

30:18

our legislators for causes that are important to us or are there outlets where those listening can say okay I

30:25

have some thoughts and some feedbacks that would uh potentially help that department and

30:30

if so is there is there a way we can reach your team certainly reach out to to me and it's just my name at dw.

30:38

idaho.gov I've spent quite a bit of my time the first three months talking to external entities particularly Foster

30:44

families and I my deputy and I estimated that we've personally talked to 10% of

30:50

the Foster families listening to them hearing their issues hearing their concerns because you can't build

30:56

Solutions without hearing from those who are directly affected uh by the problems

31:02

that you're trying to address I mean any and all feedback I welcome you know certainly you know there's a distinction

31:08

between the legislative and executive branches but I would say there's a healthy distinction I mean what we're

31:13

focused on you know frankly has been uh covered by years in legislative oversight hearings and legislative

31:19

oversight reports so I mean certainly um encourage folks to work through their local legislators as well because

31:26

nothing gets an agencies attention quite like a call from a legislator saying hey I heard from a constituent this uh so um

31:34

I think that's why the work you and uh the members of the legislature do is so important because they hold us

31:40

accountable and uh we go to them asking for uh resources and policy changes and

31:48

the more they're hearing from constituents as to the why behind those requests I think it's a healthy

31:54

symbiotic yet distinct uh relationship any chance I can get to get a

31:59

constituent uh spun up and and call in your office is is a good day for me so we'll we'll keep working on that now

32:05

Alex uh one of the traditions we have on the podcast is when when we have a time to do it we love to ask our guests uh

32:12

about a book that they've read in their life that they would recommend everybody and of course we always have to put them on the spot to do so so putting you on

32:18

the spot is there a book that you could recommend that any of our listeners should read in their lifetime well uh my

32:26

wife will jokes I have piles and piles of books I have more books now than I have bookshelves and something about

32:32

reading physical hard copies is still uh so uh important to me I haven't been

32:37

able to switch so I mean um I'll I'll give you a couple just because of how many books I have first you know from a

32:45

leadership standpoint uh what I've been working through with my leadership team is a book called the four disciplines of execution and general premise is you

32:53

know if you try to do everything you're not going to do everything well sharpen your focus this uh have a wildly

32:59

important goal put a disproportionate amount of time and energy towards that and then once you've achieved that let

33:05

that fade into day-to-day work and then pursue the next goal so I think you know

33:10

a lot of hopefully what you're seeing from the Department is US following that Playbook and hopefully following it well and successfully to the betterment of

33:17

public health and safety for idahoans in terms of regulatory philosophy I'd be remiss not to delve into some books

33:24

related to regulatory reform probably the most interesting book for me it's a short read you can even find a

33:29

PDF of it free online it's a book called permissionless Innovation it's by Adam the at the time of writing he was a

33:36

faculty member at uh the marcada center at George Mason University and it talked

33:41

about different philosophies of Regulation and how do you regulate in a fast-paced you know technologically

33:48

changing environment and it talked a lot about allowing permission to be the

33:53

default and uh using courts and others to reconcile some of those safety issues

33:58

and not regulating in advance and preventing good solutions from coming to the marketplace and I think it

34:05

transformed a lot about how I viewed the role of a regulator and what the role of

34:10

permission uh versus prohibition is and um it's really written uh with

34:17

technology regulation in mind but I've been able to apply it to a lot of fields including some of what I currently

34:22

oversee so those are the two books I'd uh I'd recommend and I will immediately

34:28

after hanging up kick myself for not revealing five other books but uh

34:34

um I'm I'm really hoping that those are not the books that you read bedtime for

34:39

your daughter and maybe that does help her fall asleep but that might not be the ideal uh nightly bedtime

34:45

story you know ear early on uh when she was really little you know we would just

34:51

read anything uh to her because I mean you're trying to form vocabulary and just words and I remember my wife Tak a

34:57

picture of me reading a book to her that was literally called how to regulate so as I said uh she's five and a half but

35:05

she's currently cutting regulations at a third grade level so I'm very I love that hey I so I just

35:11

finished uh the anxious generation have you got your hands on that one yet I have not I I recommend it'll it'll scare

35:18

you uh you know it's social media it's technology in the hands of this generation so with a daughter that's

35:25

cutting regulation she might find it interesting so you'll have to pass it on I'll check it out Alex we know how busy

35:31

you are we know how much you're working on not only do we appreciate your time we appreciate everything that you have accomplished in your previous role with

35:37

Governor little and what you're doing now to to help Idaho family so we hope to have you back on as as a lot of these

35:42

priorities that you're focused on come to fruition but until then uh we hope you know how much we appreciate your

35:48

time thanks so much appreciate what you guys do thanks Alex till next time

Eric Stamps 9/23/24 Eric Stamps 9/23/24

The Integrity of Idaho Elections

Episode 6 Idaho Secretary of State Phil McGrane—Main Street Idaho Podcast Season 3

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Idaho Secretary of State, Phil McGrane, joins our host, Brennan Summers, for episode 6 of the Main Street Idaho Podcast. Following the 2020 election, Secretary McGrane explains how election security is continually bolstered to maintain the integrity of Idaho elections. In addition to preparing for the upcoming 2024 presidential election, Summers and McGrane highlight the importance of primary elections and how to engage more Idaho citizens with more information and voter turnout.

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Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (00:00):

Welcome to the Idaho Main Street Podcast where we talk about the issues that matter to you. Welcome to the Idaho Main Street Podcast. We are thrilled today to have a much anticipated guest that we've begged for years and years to come and join us. A barbecue award-winning Grill master, a self-described election junkie and Idaho's Secretary of State, none other than secretary Phil McGrane. Phil, thanks so much for joining us.

Idaho Secretary of State Phil McGrane (00:32):

Thanks. I'm glad to finally be here.

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (00:34):

Yeah, it's good to have you. So I don't think most Americans on average would be able to name who the Secretary of State is, and I think that probably holds true of I Idaho. Is that fair to say that the Secretary of State is one of those constitutional offices that most people might not know what they do?

Idaho Secretary of State Phil McGrane (00:51):

I think that's especially been true historically is that it's an office that if everything's running smoothly, no one knows it's happening. Things just work the way they're supposed to work. Obviously, following the 2020 election, this role has gained a lot more attention than it's ever had before. So many people may recognize a name like Brad Raff Asperger from Georgia because there are positions that have gained greater notoriety, but by and large, this is a role that most people don't think about each day,

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (01:19):

And that notoriety comes largely because of the effects that the office has on elections. Right,

Idaho Secretary of State Phil McGrane (01:25):

Right. The Secretary of State generally is the chief election official for most states. That's the case here in Idaho. So usually when people think of me, they think of me as the election nerd, just like you said in the introduction. I'm the bald guy with glasses who's usually on the news talking about elections

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (01:41):

And you love it.

Idaho Secretary of State Phil McGrane (01:42):

I do. I absolutely do. I fell into it right out of college and I've been working elections for 20 years in the administration. Obviously I've run for office as well, and so I spend a lot more time than the average Idahoan thinking about elections, which is why I'm here in this role.

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (01:58):

We're going to nerd out today, so if any of our listeners buckle up because this is going to get good, but before we get into all the election talk, Phil, what are the roles in your job that don't have anything to do with elections?

Idaho Secretary of State Phil McGrane (02:11):

Most people, if they're familiar with the office, it's probably because they're a small business owner. Every business in the state of Idaho is registered with our office. That's actually one of the most frequent ways that people interact with us is registering businesses. It could be someone who's say, starting a lawn business and registering their LLC or it could be a corporation like Simplot, it doesn't matter. Everybody works through our office, and so we're processing hundreds of applications a day in terms of businesses and the renewals and everything else that goes along with that. The other part though is I always, when I ask school kids and they come into the office, what the Secretary of State does, most people miss the most obvious piece, and that's I am the secretary of the state. I'm the official record keeper for so many things for the state.

(02:56):

So I always joke on my very day when I was sworn in, I was in the governor's office, the governor made a mistake initially on signing his oath and somebody had to make sure we got it right, and I fell into that role. The ones that the oaths are stored with every executive order that happens is with our office proclamations. Most people don't realize through the legislative process, every bill comes ultimately to me and I'm the kind of referee at the end to make sure the process was conducted properly. And so there's just all sorts of state important records and ministerial functions that the Secretary of State does.

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (03:32):

Yeah, secretary, you don't get governor little his coffee, you just make sure that the oaths are signed. Right,

Idaho Secretary of State Phil McGrane (03:37):

Exactly. I definitely don't interact with, but it's one of those things for an executive order to be official, it both takes his signature and my signature in order for us to actually come together and say, all right, this is official action of the state of Idaho.

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (03:51):

So somebody's ears perked up the moment you said all businesses are registered through your office. To those who have concerns about the government being involved in anything, help us understand why it actually is in their best interest as a business to register with you and your office.

Idaho Secretary of State Phil McGrane (04:04):

Our office, really the main function of it is to build trust in government and we serve as an intermediary in so many things. It's true in elections. We sit kind of in the center trying to balance it out, and it's true in business as well. So the reason that every business registers with us, it allows other businesses to have confidence that who they're doing business with is legitimate and so there's no scam. So if somebody starts a small business, one of the things they'll find is they won't be able to open a bank account until the bank verifies their information with our office. And it's not because we require that. That's not the government saying, it's just the banks want to know before they lend money, Hey, this person's legitimate and if there's ever a problem, we know how to track 'em down. And so we maintain basically a public listing of all the businesses, their registered agents and how you can get ahold of that business if you ever needed to.

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (04:53):

See, I'm learning something already. I had no idea. So this is all very helpful, Phil, when you decided to run for Secretary of State, you were currently holding office in Ada County, but you decided you're going to run for statewide office and you had some pretty notable endorsements roll in. So governor little endorsed you, former Governor Otter, Congressman Simpson Senator, but if I may speak for you, I think that you might be most proud of the over 120 county officials that came out and endorsed you. Why were those local endorsements so important to you and what does that tell you about your mandate in serving?

Idaho Secretary of State Phil McGrane (05:29):

It's been really good for me. So I came from county government, so it's not real surprising that I had so much support. I was very active in the Idaho Association of Counties for years leading up to it, served on the legislative committee for a long time and did a lot of work with county government and at heart. I really carry that still to this day. We provide a ton of support in this office to all of the county clerks around the state helping them and run their elections offices. The county clerks are really the boots on the ground who are going to be counting the votes this November. They're the going to be ones training the poll workers running the polling locations. Our office is really sitting high above providing support for all of those offices, and when we look at decisions as a state, it's been really important in terms of how we interact with them. There's plenty of instances where there can be tension between local government and the state government. I've worked really hard to maintain those relationships I've had over the years and to having been a county official to sometimes say like, well, hold on. This is going to have huge ripple effects down at the local level. Let's talk with our partners to make sure we're making decisions that when they finally hit a small community in the state that they actually make sense and it's not just coming here from Boise.

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (06:42):

So you talk about the importance of local leadership, particularly when it comes to accounting ballots and running elections. I think there's a lot of misconception because sometimes we think of presidential elections and we think one big election, it's actually 50 but might not even actually be 50 because when we look at Idaho it's more so let's start from the beginning. Help us out here. If I want to run for office, let's start at the moment of filing, where do I start and then walk us through where it ends with certification post-election, how do we do our elections in Idaho? From the moment a candidate says, I think I'm interested,

Idaho Secretary of State Phil McGrane (07:15):

Well, I will say I'm happy to get into the weeds. This is one of those processes most people don't think about and they really shouldn't have to. When someone goes to the polls to vote, they should be thinking about who their choices are marking their ballots and have confidence that not only their vote is going to count, that the process is fair and smooth and clean, and we really have dedicated professionals working on that, whether that's local election officials, whether that's the county clerks, people here in our office, we all work collaboratively together, and I always like to frame election administration as we are the largest event planning operation in the state of Idaho. Going back to my days working in ADA County, you think about it, we're hosting a big event on November 5th. We're just inviting a million of our closest friends and most of them are going to show up and we have to have everything in place to be able to do that.

(08:06):

And so that starts, like you said at the beginning, when candidates file candidates file both at our office, whether that's the members of Congress, state legislators, others at the local county offices for county commissioner, some of the school districts and other roles that are going to be on the ballot, and then we work together to build out that process. Right now we're really in the early phases for the November election. Ballots are being printed right now. We just finished designing all the ballots across the state over the last couple of weeks. It's where we finalized the candidates who are going to appear on the ballots and got things ready. They're preparing for absentees and right now we're recruiting poll workers across the state. It's going to take about 5,000 Idahoans to serve as poll workers to pull this election off. It's not a small workforce because again, we're hosting a giant event with a million of our friends. So all the logistics are what are happening and when people like you and I talk about elections, we'll talk about the elected officials, the campaign tactics, some of the principles like democracy and our republic for mostly election administrators. It's really a giant logistics operation, trying to have the people, the materials, everything in place to make sure the process goes smoothly and that every Idahoan gets the right ballot and that each of those ballots are counted and we can account for them.

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (09:24):

I love this balance you talk about because it absolutely is a logistical nightmare at times to think how you're going to do this, and I'm sure that so many that are close to it like yourself can get caught up in the idea of making sure that the supply chain of the project gets done correctly and everything is safe, secure. But I also know on that flip side that you have such a soft spot in your heart for what the beauty and the simplicity of an election is and the idea that it is us coming together and choosing our leaders, and it is one of the simplest but most beautiful thing that the founders have come up with. Talk a little bit about how you being so close to that, you're still able to keep the vision of what a special event an election is in our democracy, in our republic.

Idaho Secretary of State Phil McGrane (10:05):

No, I think it's really part the United States was really built on this simple principle of self-governance, right? Rather than have King George tell us how to live and what we're going to do is that we decide for ourselves and decide as a community who our leaders are going to be, what the policies are we're going to advance. We're going to see that on the ballot here in November. This is where people get to have a voice. It's been really powerful for me in this role. People who visit me in the Capitol, I love to share my pocket copy of the Constitution. It's something I go speak about from time to time. Right before I was sworn in, my dad came in and gave me, it's a leather bound copy of the Constitution, but what makes my personal copy unique is it was handwritten by my father in calligraphy, and I can tell you the constitution's powerful on its own, but when you get to see it in a sentimental way like that, it really has deep meaning and that really is what we're all coming together for.

(11:01):

So while there are a lot of logistics, and I might be worried about getting the supplies to a polling location, at the end of the day, this really is where communities have a voice and one of the cool things about presidential elections is this is where most people show up. We're really preparing for record turnout this November. The president drives a lot of attention on the ballot. We're going to see the most idahoans show up that we've ever seen vote in our state. That says a lot. I would love to see that for every single election where we get involved and there's so many decisions that impact our lives that are determined at the ballot box, and that's part of what drives us. Even what gets hard here in the office, it's really knowing that the founding ideas of our country and the belief that we all have a say in the process is what motivates us.

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (11:49):

I mean, that's a beautiful imagery of both your father and how this all plays out. I love the optimism when you talk about turnout coming in November. I hope you're right.

Idaho Secretary of State Phil McGrane (11:59):

I'm always Pollyanna at heart. I'm confident we're going to have great turnout. There's so much attention on this election, especially nationally, but also locally we have some issues that should bring people out

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (12:09):

And I'm happy that you're Pollyanna happy that you're optimistic, but I'm going to play the opposite of this, right? I'm always very discouraged by our turnout numbers, both in our state and in the nation, knowing that this beautiful, right, we talk about of self-governance is often not used. Right, and maybe there's probably a lot of reasons I'd like to get into, but first give us the facts. What does turnout look like in Idaho in a primary versus a general on a typical

Idaho Secretary of State Phil McGrane (12:32):

Cycle? Yeah, primary versus general. There is a big difference, and in a state like ours, and this is not unique to Idaho, most states around the country lean one direction or another and primary elections matter a ton because that determines who advances to the general election ballot. Here in Idaho, we usually see between 20 and 30% turnout for a primary election where headed into November will probably be somewhere between 75 and 80%. In terms of our order, that's huge. I mean, that really is a significant difference. President is going to motivate most people to show up. It's hard because on any given day, it's tough for each of us to point to how the president is specifically impacting our lives versus when you look at your local highway district, it's really easy to see how they're impacting your lives, whether it's road construction, potholes, detours, whatever. It doesn't matter what part of the state you're in, you see that. And so trying to get people engaged down the entire ballot, not just beginning at the top, but getting through the whole process. That's really been one of my missions here in this role is to get people more engaged, to get voters more information about what they're voting on. And I'm hopeful that we can get more turnout, but that is always one of the big challenges is especially these local elections, how do we get people engaged in the process?

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (13:49):

And to be clear, when we look at a 20 to 30% turnout, that's of eligible voters, so we're looking at of people who can vote, 80% of them aren't in a primary on average. If you look at this ballot, if you had to predict what percent of the ballot do you think was decided already in the primary?

Idaho Secretary of State Phil McGrane (14:08):

Ooh, it really depends on what communities you're in, but through most of the state, especially when you look at legislative races or county races that are partisan, overwhelmingly the majority were predetermined and we actually see that throughout the state on a number of the ballots. In some of our smaller communities, many of 'em don't have competitive races. There's only one candidate, so it's not even like there's a choice between that and another candidate. The race really was determined in the primary election and it makes building the ballot a little bit easier on our side administratively, but it doesn't really serve the principle of allowing people to have choices and have a voice.

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (14:42):

Yeah. Secretary, how does Idaho's turnout both primary in general compare? You say it's similar to other states and it's big drop off, but how does it percentage-wise to maybe surrounding states?

Idaho Secretary of State Phil McGrane (14:54):

On average, we perform better than the national average in terms of turnout. I expect that to be the case this election. It's always interesting. Some of the people who have the most difficult time getting to voting actually turn out best. So some of our mountainous counties like Idaho County for example, actually has some of the highest turnout that we see in any given election. I think that's a point of pride for a lot of these communities. One of the things you talked about in terms of it's not just 50 states voting. There are different processes across the country. So if we look to the west, we see Oregon, Oregon and Washington mail out absentee ballots to every single registered voter. Idahoans generally choose to vote on election day, about 70% of voters will show up to the polls on election day. We do things differently, and we even see that within the state. Some of our communities are more dispersed and others are more condensed. And so one of the cool things we have here in our state is each of the processes can be a little bit different based on the makeup of the community where they're at.

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (15:52):

Interesting. So obviously, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but clearly as an election junkie, the important of engagement and you would very vocally encourage everyone who can vote to vote. Why do you think they're not? What's keeping so many people from getting to the polls?

Idaho Secretary of State Phil McGrane (16:10):

There's been plenty of polling and things done at times. Most of the time it's just people are busy, they're just busy living their lives. I think most of the time when people engage with government, they really want to be focused on their lives. It's that pursuit of happiness that we all aspire for in it. I always liked when I was out on the campaign trail, to use the analogy, when you're driving down the road, you really want to be focused on your destination, not the government that put it there. If there's a pothole, government's not doing enough and if there's a speed bump, government's doing too much. Really our role in government, and this truly is my philosophical view, is to support people in living their lives in a way that doesn't disrupt them. It's really challenging. People are busy, whether it's work, whether it's taking care of kids school, we see all sorts of things, and so part of it in our role is trying to, how can we make this process easier?

(17:07):

I think through some of the work we've done with the vote idaho.gov website is a good example of just getting information, trying to remove some of the barriers so that people can know how to register, where they're going to vote on election day if they need to request an absentee ballot. How to do that. We're really trying to remove some of the barriers and this, one of the things I really advocated for in the legislature is a voter guide that's really driven on the idea of voters want information. It's hard to make a choice when you don't know who the people are that you're choosing between, and so the more we can get information out there, the better. Everyone's going to head to the polls and know who they're voting for president in November. The rest of the ballot, it becomes a lot more of a challenge.

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (17:49):

And as you pointed out, some of those other items and individuals on the ballot have at times more influence on an individual's life and they don't know what that proposition means or they don't know what that candidate stands for. So the voter guide seems like a no-brainer, giving information to the voter so they can study out why was their opposition to that.

Idaho Secretary of State Phil McGrane (18:09):

It really is. Voters want, the most common request that we get in our office as well as the county elections offices is where's my voter guide? People from other states, especially surrounding states, are accustomed to getting voter information mailed to them. I mean, interestingly enough, our office right now is producing a voter pamphlet. It will send out information about voting, about the constitutional amendment, about the proposition, all the things that are on the ballot except for the candidates. We won't have any candidate information in there and we need more of it. One of the stories I love to share and highlight is the 2020 election. Everyone's familiar with it because of the presidential election, but I was the 80 county clerk at the time, and we had a very close race for the 80 County Highway District. It was two votes apart, so the race was determined by two votes out of 40,000 votes cast, that's less than five thousandths of a percent difference.

(19:02):

So the expectations in our work are extremely high, and I'm happy to say when we did recounts and we went through the process all the way to the very end, the results stood, the process worked the way it was supposed to work, but as we did those recounts, we learned a lot about it. Any candidate you ask can find two people that didn't show up and vote. It doesn't matter how high the turnout is, it's easy to find somebody, a friend, a neighbor, a coworker who didn't vote. What was really shocking in that recount though was out of the 40,000 ballots cast, 10,000 voters skipped that race. So this wasn't trying to get people to show up and vote. These are the people with a ballot and a pen in a voting booth who just didn't know who the choices were. And this is for an entity that impacts everybody's lives all the time.

(19:51):

Anybody who's ever been to Boise has run into a CHD at some point in time, and so it's really surprising to see that, and that's one of the things is how do we get people to go from president to Congress to vote on our legislators? As a former county clerk, most people don't know who their county clerk is or what the county clerk that they even vote on the county clerk. How do we get all the way down or to things like our school district elections, and so we're really working hard trying to push that forward in the legislature. The Senate has voted to produce a voter guide twice. The house still hasn't been willing to take it up yet. We're going to continue to bang the drum because at the end of the day, we know Idahoans are wanting more information when they vote.

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (20:33):

Yeah, like I said, it seems like a no-brainer and more communications better than less. I love that story. I think that articulates well the importance of voting and the importance of knowing what you're voting for. I do have a question when it comes to, it seems at times that there's this dichotomy between elections for persuasion and then elections of just get out the vote. And I wonder, as you deal with so many campaigns from a distance and can objectively look, do you think that whether on a national or on a state or local level that it's about trying to persuade people to vote for you? Or are you just trying to get people to show up to vote? Is there value to one or the other?

Idaho Secretary of State Phil McGrane (21:12):

From my perspective, especially for candidates, just getting people to show up was one of the biggest things. Especially many communities, you kind of know where the people are, who they support, whether if we're in Blackfoot or we're in the north end of Boise, we kind of have a sense of what the voters are like. It's really just getting people to show up. That's always the biggest challenge. I've seen people over the years who were really focused on very wonky policy issues. I think there was a great commercial, I don't know if it was the 2018 cycle. It was from another state where it was a wonky county commissioner race that did a TV ad talking about cutting the levy rate from 0.006 to 0.004 something. Most Idaho voters aren't interested in all that, right? They want to find the right people. I think one of the beauties of our republic is that we don't instinctively go to direct democracy all the time.

(22:03):

We're not all voting on every bill in front of the legislature. We don't want to take the time to figure out all that. That's why we find good people in our communities to represent us, and that's the kind of beauty of the process, whether it's our legislators here in the Capitol or our congress members in dc, it's finding good people to stand up and represent our communities and our values. And a state like Idaho, that's really important on the national scene is to make sure we have a voice in the process and heading to the polls is part of our opportunity to weigh into that entire system.

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (22:34):

You're absolutely right, but there's instilled in this in elections this collective action problem, which if everybody thinks that somebody else is going to step up and vote for the right people, then the beauty and the simplicity of elections falls apart when the wrong people are the ones who are running and the wrong people are the ones who are the only ones voting. So talk to me about number one, your concern level regarding turnout overall, because you seem very optimistic. Is your office focused on getting it together and then your concern level surrounding if people are confident or trust our elections in general?

Idaho Secretary of State Phil McGrane (23:08):

Oh, absolutely. I mean, we're really working on turnout. I just earlier today was cutting some TV ads that we're getting ready to promote the election to make sure people know where to get their information that idaho.gov is their resource to, whether it's to register to vote, to find their polling location or request an absentee ballot. So we're doing everything we can to get information out to voters. Hopefully that will help in making it easier for voters to head to the polls and vote. And the other part is we are focused a lot more on the integrity of our elections, the security, making sure people have confidence that it's not just about showing up, but part of that process is having trust in the system. When you stick a ballot in a ballot box, you're putting a lot of faith in the system to know that yes, that ballot's going to count.

(23:53):

I think one of the things we lose sight of sometimes is that's not true across the world. There are plenty of places where people don't have confidence when they stick their ballot in the ballot box, and that's really one of the things we have focused on is trying to add transparency. That's everything from having cameras in some of our elections offices to be able to watch, but really just most of it boils down to having some common sense practices that all people can know really make it easier to trust the system. One is we require photo ID to vote, so people are going to be asked to show their driver's license when they vote. Overwhelmingly voters use a driver's license. We have a paper record of everybody's vote, so when you cast your ballot, that official piece of paper is your vote. So when we do an audit, which we do random hand count audits after each of elections or we do a recount, we actually go back to the paper record and review those.

(24:47):

A great example of that is the recount we did in district 32 right after the primary election. It again was two votes apart, and we went through and went through both the hand counted ballots in Butte County as well as all the machine counted ballots in Bingham County to make sure that the results stood. And it was great to see the candidates get to see that process and feel validated like, oh, yep, this is the outcome. One candidate likes it better than the other. That's always going to be the case, but it's really important for people to have confidence in it, and we're doing everything we can to highlight some of the really simple great practices. One more that pops into my mind is last year we had a bill in the legislature to ban internet connectivity to all of our voting equipment. We already weren't connected to the internet, but now it is by law, the equipment cannot be connected to the internet and the state of Idaho. I think that's one more way to reassure voters that their vote will count this November.

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (25:41):

Yeah, a great reminder on how it's so different here in the US compared to other countries with voting confidence, but particularly Idaho, you list out the reasons of why we can be confident going and voting in Idaho that our vote will count. Secretary, you're on record in the past of saying that you don't love the narrative and it frustrates you that there's widespread voter fraud that undermines our election results, but you're almost equally as frustrated that there is no voter discrepancies and there's no irregular voting that occurs in the country. Is that still true? Do you still stand by

Idaho Secretary of State Phil McGrane (26:14):

That? Yes, that's definitely true. Having spent my career working in elections, having been in the room reviewing ballots, working through some of the tough issues, there are dedicated election officials, not just here in Idaho, but across the country, and we hear these narratives. It's like every other thing in politics where you hear some of the loudest voices suggesting either there's widespread thought or I think it is important to highlight. There's lots of organizations saying, oh, that doesn't exist. Look the other way. I can say that our does pursue voter fraud cases. I have been involved in the prosecution of people for either voting twice or registering when they shouldn't be. We're regularly maintaining our voter rolls and monitoring to make sure that they are current and accurate. We put the safeguards in place to protect people's votes, and one of the interesting examples is going back to that same 2020 A CHD race where we had the two votes apart in that race, our office had rejected three absentee ballots.

(27:15):

Now I can tell you when it's a two vote race and we reject three absentee ballots, people pay a lot of attention. Two of them were easy because the person didn't actually sign 'em. One person drew an inappropriate picture, but one of the other ones I always like to talk about is the voter, the signature on the absentee ballot envelope, and we verify every signature on every absentee cast in the state of Idaho. It doesn't matter what county you're in, it was a beautiful flowing signature, full first name, full middle name, full last name. Honestly, looking at it, you almost wanted to accept it because it looked good. Now, the driver's license signature was a hot squiggly mess. Now, many people may wonder like, okay, what was that? Well, the voter was an 18-year-old male, which of those signatures sounds more likely in terms of their signature?

(28:06):

It didn't take us much research to figure out that mom had voted her son's ballot, and it doesn't matter that you're related, you still only get one vote. And so it was one of our voter fraud cases that we pursued during the 2020 election, and while there are not large volumes of them, there are some every election that we're pursuing to make sure we protect the system and hold those people accountable who are trying to interfere with it. We've got a lot more safeguards in place than people realize, and I think that's one of the beauties of it, is that you have people who are dedicated taking care of it so that when you head to the polls, you don't have to think about that. You know that it's going to be fair and that your vote's going to count just the same as anybody else in your community.

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (28:46):

The takeaway is Idaho's elections are safe, secure, but you're always working to ensure that they become safer, more secure, and

Idaho Secretary of State Phil McGrane (28:54):

We're always building and growing on it. Yep,

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (28:57):

Love it. Do you see practices in other states that concern you?

Idaho Secretary of State Phil McGrane (29:02):

I think some of it is one. I know professionals. I've been working in this industry long enough. I know a lot of my peers across the country, and they're very dedicated professionals. A lot of it boils down to policy decisions more than anything. States do things differently. As I mentioned already, Oregon and Washington do it very different than we do here in Idaho. There's pros and cons to each. I think we have a really good balance system in the state where you can request an absentee ballot, but you have to actually go request it. We have early voting available. Polling places are throughout the state, so you can use 'em. A really good example for me to highlight is the 2020 election. That was during part of the pandemic. The Idaho legislature actually got together for a special session to address some of our election needs, and I think that was great because the legislature weighed in on what we're going to do, and one of 'em was just the pre-processing of absentee ballots.

(29:52):

That's something that would help the entire country that isn't done and actually isn't done still in Idaho at this point. We just did it that one election, but allows the offices to be more methodical to take the time to do it without the pressure of after election day, once the polls close, every news outlet in the world is looking for results. Everyone's clicking refresh on their computers and there is an immense pressure to get things done. Idaho was the second state in the nation to have all their results in during 2020, and I can contrast that with Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania took up a very similar bill that Idaho did during the 2020 election except for Idaho passed it and Pennsylvania, and we all watched and followed as we were wondering what was going on in Pennsylvania afterwards. I know the current Secretary of State, there are dedicated people, but some of those decisions didn't help build confidence in the process, and I'm hopeful that we can all learn from that and that we can have better systems in place to get people results when they want 'em because it's very clear the country wants to know who the president's going to be right around election day, not weeks to follow.

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (30:55):

Absolutely. And sometimes this perception becomes reality that even though everything could and should be on the up and up, if it looks like it's not, then suddenly there's just no trust.

Idaho Secretary of State Phil McGrane (31:05):

I think that's a big part of it is everything could actually be going well, but if it takes days and then weeks later it raises the question, there's no reason people need to know what's going on on the inside. Just saying, wait a second. There are some practices we can all have in place and do things. We can have our differences among states, but we can still try to meet the American public where they're hoping to be on election. And I don't think that's something unique here in Idaho. I think that's cross country.

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (31:30):

Yeah. So I'm going to ask you to do something a little unconventional if you'll take off the Secretary of state hat and even take off your partisan hat. And as just put on the election junkie hat, we've referenced a few times. We have a big election coming up and anybody who's following polls or maps knows that it looks like the presidential election could be quite close, and as of right now, it appears quite close, unprecedented, and not only former president coming back, running again, but also a vice president coming to the ticket with the president last second coming off so many new things as an election junkie, what are some things you see looking at this that more of us should be paying attention to in the landscape? Give us just some insider baseball here. When it comes to the presidential race,

Idaho Secretary of State Phil McGrane (32:13):

I will say I'm definitely an elections junkie. Probably a lot of the stuff I focus on are the nerdy things that no one else does. It's really interesting to see how it plays out. The presidential race has been a rollercoaster over ride so far. I mean, going back to the first debate where I think all of us just were slack jawed and didn't know what to think, I still don't know what happened there. I'm actually surprised as a, we've moved on from the assassination attempt pretty quickly, and that is a really, really big deal for those of us who are in government and close to it. That was a terrifyingly close moment, not just for President Trump, but for all of us. I think that was really significant here. As you already mentioned, the switching candidates, that all happened over the summer. We still have a ways to go between now and election day.

(33:02):

It is interesting. Those of us here in Idaho, when we turn on the television, we don't see presidential ads. In some ways. You wouldn't know there's a presidential election until you turn on some national news and know what's happening. One of my colleagues here was in elections training in Detroit recently, and he said, every single commercial in Michigan is a presidential ad by one of the two candidates or some super PAC or somebody else. That's one of the interesting things is a lot of attention is on the battleground states. I think as we get closer to November, that's going to continue to be true. This is going to be a close selection and then it has trickle down. What does that look like here in Idaho? People are very passionate in our state. People have strong feelings, and I think one of the biggest challenges for us as we head towards November is just how does this reconcile itself?

(33:50):

Because there are people who have very strong feelings in both directions, and hopefully we can come together as a country afterwards and really continue to build on the system. Our system is better today because of the 2020 election. We've really bolstered what we're doing. We've added more transparency elements. I'll highlight one great thing, the ADA County Clerk's office, so it was my successor, Trent Triple. He has a new tool called Ballot Verifier. This is as nerdy as election nerdy gets. He is now posting every image of every single ballot. So if someone wants to conduct their own hand count and ADA County, they can go and flip through every single image and count all the votes. They can see how the machine counted the votes, and he's gained national attention for it because it's something across the country people are watching. They're like, there's transparency, and then there's Trent level of transparency. And it really is eyeopening to see behind the curtains. And that's part of our efforts to really say like, look, we're doing it well. You want to check our work? We want to invite anybody who has questions in, I've given lots of tours of our election shop. There's a lot of good things in place and I feel confident going in for all of us here. I know you asked me to take off my Secretary of State role, but it's hard for me to get out of the system when I think about all this stuff.

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (35:07):

No, I love it. And I have zero desire to go in and hand count any ballots in ADA County, but I love that it's an option and that people do. Secretary, not only do you appreciate your time today, we appreciate what you and your office are doing. I go back to this idea that you don't want us to have to worry about anything when we go vote except who we're voting for, and just have trust that everything will be counted and correct, and we know it takes thousands of people to make that work. So not just you and the great county clerks, but all those volunteers that show up and make sure I get my sticker. We appreciate it. So Secretary Phil McGrane, thank you so much for your time today. We hope to have you back after the election to talk more and recap on a few things. And again, we appreciate your time.

Idaho Secretary of State Phil McGrane (35:48):

Yeah, it was great to be with you today.

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (35:50):

Thank you, sir. Till next time.

Eric Stamps 9/17/24 Eric Stamps 9/17/24

Helping Build Families

Episode 5 Dr. Kyle Tobler—Main Street Idaho Podcast Season 3

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For episode 5 of the Main Street Idaho Podcast, we join Dr. Kyle Tobler at the Idaho Center for Reproductive Medicine in Boise, Idaho. Our host, Brennan Summers, discusses the truth behind fertility treatment and its unique role in helping build families. With as nuanced a subject as in vitro fertilization, Dr. Tobler takes that time to cover fact from fiction in an in-depth look into creating families that otherwise wouldn't be without help of modern science.

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…

Eric Stamps 9/9/24 Eric Stamps 9/9/24

Fights for Idaho Values in Washington DC

Episode 4 Idaho Senator James Risch—Main Street Idaho Podcast Season 3

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From the rugged landscapes of Idaho to the corridors of power in Washington, D.C., U.S. Senator James Risch has been a steadfast voice for Idahoans. With a career spanning local, state, and federal levels of government, Senator Risch brings a unique perspective to the challenges facing our state and nation.

In this week's podcast, we dive into a conversation with Senator Risch, exploring his approach to representing Idaho's interests on the national stage. Here are some key highlights from our discussion:

The importance of maintaining an Idaho-centric approach in Washington, with most of Senator Risch's staff coming from the Gem State.
The fight against the Lava Ridge Wind Project, which Senator Risch views as detrimental to Idaho's interests and landscape.
The critical role of small businesses in America's economy and the need to protect them from burdensome regulations.
The challenge of navigating complex legislation in D.C., compared to the more straightforward process in Idaho's state legislature.
Senator Risch's perspective on public service and the importance of appreciating America's freedoms and opportunities.

Senator Risch's insights offer a glimpse into the workings of our federal government and the ongoing efforts to ensure Idaho's voice is heard in national policy decisions. His commitment to fighting for local control and pushing back against regulatory overreach resonates with many Idahoans concerned about federal intervention in state matters.

We hope you find value in Senator Risch's perspectives on public policy, the challenges facing our state, and the importance of engaged citizenship in preserving America's democratic traditions.

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Brennan Summers, Host (00:00):

Welcome to the Idaho Main Street Podcast where we talk about the issues that matter to you. Welcome to the Idaho Main Street podcast. We're here today with former Idaho governor and current US Senator Jim Risc. Senator, thanks so much for being here.

U.S. Senator James Risch (00:19):

Glad to be here. Thank you. Thanks

Brennan Summers, Host (00:20):

For having me. I got my first start in DC as a college summer intern in your office, and what was interesting is you made sure that your team knew that although the office was located in the district, district of Columbia, you wanted an Idaho approach. You wanted them to operate like they were in Idaho.

U.S. Senator James Risch (00:38):

Well, we hire most everybody from Idaho, certainly in the personal office. The vast majority are in the foreign relations office. It's a little tougher, but we still have a lot of people from Idaho because that's got lanes that people are specialists in and you have to go for a wider group there, but no, look, you got to dance with who brought you to the dance, and so we are focused on Idaho. Every decision I make is based first and foremost on how is this going to affect Idaho people.

Brennan Summers, Host (01:14):

Yeah. How difficult has it been to take your no nonsense, solve the problem approach to a city, an area that's not typically known for that?

U.S. Senator James Risch (01:24):

Well, look, it's a legislative job, be it the state level or a federal level is very different than an executive job. People always say to me, which would you like better being governor, being the US Senate. They're very different jobs, and there's about a dozen of us, any one time that have been former governors in the Senate, Republican and Democrat, the ones who were in their state legislature before they were a governor, they move right into the Senate job and it really isn't a problem if they'd never been in a legislative experience. They're just astounded at how different it is and how the legislative democratic process is so different than the executive job. The executive job. People bring you a problem, you get the team around the table, have everybody give you the input. What's the problem? What are the issues associated with? What are the options that we have?

(02:24):

What are the upside downside of the options? What do you recommend? What do you recommend? I chose doing number two, go make it happen. That's not the way the legislature works. They put a loaf of bread on the table and the first thing you do is start debating about it and goes on for a long, long time, sometimes for years, and when all is said and done, you never wind up with a loaf of bread like you do when you're governor. You wind up with a piece of it if you're lucky, and it's a give and take process, and it's unique to problem solving, but look, we're all human beings. We solve problems like human beings do and everybody's different.

Brennan Summers, Host (03:02):

I love the approach to, you got to solve the problem. You got to engage in it. Most Idaho Idahoans, their understanding of how the government is operating or not operating, it's just coming from what they see here or read. Is it accurate, do you think we, is there a story going on in the US Senate that we're not seeing?

U.S. Senator James Risch (03:22):

It's hard to describe being as close to it as I am, but I will say this. I read the national stories and state stories too about how toxic it is back there and how awful the relationships are and that sort of thing. Nothing could be further from the truth. Are we polarized? We are deeply, deeply polarized on the issues, but as far as getting along, look, there's a hundred of us in the Senate, just as an example, a couple of times a year we have dinners where with spouses, and so you go to the dinner tables of 10 round tables, open seating, so the Republicans on one side of the room, Democrats on the other side of the room, it's open seating. You sit wherever out of the a hundred people, there's only maybe five or six. You hope, yeah, maybe I'd like them, and it isn't on a partisan basis either, I can tell you that.

(04:16):

But look, we get along very well. We're human beings. When we get together, we talk about what people talk about, whether you're at church or school or whatever. You talk about normal kinds of things, your families, your fishing and hunting and all those kinds of things. But when it comes to issues, we all represent our constituencies, and if there's one wish I had for Idaho people is everybody could stand in my shoes for a couple of days because you'd come back and kiss the ground here in Idaho. I mean, you hear a lot of complaints about the legislature and this, that, and everything. I can tell you having served 28 years up there in the state senate in one capacity or another, that place runs like a fine tuned Swiss watch compared to back in dc. But look, we're all human beings. We get through these things and we're headed for an interesting rest of the year. I think I've run 36 times myself. I've been involved in a half a dozen presidential races, either as a state chairman or a national surrogate or what have you. I've never seen anything like this. I mean, it's going to be be interesting.

Brennan Summers, Host (05:24):

I listen to old Obama advisor who is criticizing what that administration had done in that they hired too many people who look at the rest of the country with Periscopes. They have to look at the country from a distance. Your office, as you mentioned, you dance with the people that you brought. You've stayed close to the issues, and one of the issues that you've stayed really close to recently and making sure that even if you're not always in Idaho, you can know what's going on in Idaho, is this issue with the Lava Ridge Wind Project. Talk to us a little bit about when that came on your radar and what you're hearing.

U.S. Senator James Risch (05:54):

First of all, I'm in Idaho a lot. I come home every weekend, so I'm here every week. The Lava Ridge project, the first, I mean my undergraduate degree was in natural resources. My bachelor's degree was in forest management, so natural resources are not foreign to me by any stretch of the imagination, and I've had a lot of experience with it. As you know, when I was governor, I wrote the roadless rule for Idaho, which is in place now and will be hopefully for a long time. When they threw that thing on the table in front of me, it didn't make sense on every possible level, and so you start to think, what's going on here and what's going on is it was a typical proposition by this administration who you can understand really simply. People say, oh, this is so confusing. It isn't confusing at all.

(06:48):

If you want to think about the Biden Harris administration, think of woke and think of green because that's all they care about. That is everything they do. All they care about is woke and green, and so green, gosh, this is wonderful. They're like Idahos. They value public lands. All I can see is after looking at that is the hell they do, that's a hundred thousand acres that they're taking and going to pollute with these towers that are higher than the space needle. What are they thinking? Well, what they're thinking is the other side of the coin, oh, well, we need green energy, and I says, you don't need a hundred thousand acres for green energy. Build yourself a small nuclear plant that'll put out way more power than this, and it'll take up maybe five acres instead of a hundred thousand. And then since this energy that they're making is going to California, don't build it here, build it in California for crying out loud. Anyway, so the fight's on and they have their neck bowed and well, as you probably saw the videos of my goal with both the head of the BLM, the tree

Brennan Summers, Host (07:50):

Spiker

U.S. Senator James Risch (07:52):

And the woman who's Secretary of Interior, both of 'em are just dead wrong on this. Somebody in the White House has said, you're going to do this, and they just got their head down and going forward. So if Trump gets elected, this thing's over because within an hour we're going to do just what they did to the pipeline, and that is we'll have an executive order ready to go, and that thing will be ended. If Trump does not get elected, then it's a bigger fight and that lawsuits are going to go on for a long, long time.

Brennan Summers, Host (08:25):

Yeah. You referenced the committee meeting you had where you got the Secretary of Interior, Deb Holland right in front of you, and you were able to ask her questions about if everyone in Idaho hates this and doesn't want it, are you still going to do it? And she seemed to double down.

U.S. Senator James Risch (08:36):

Yeah, no, she didn't say yes, but she inferred, yes, they don't care about us. It is what everybody loves to hate about the federal government. What they're doing here is they're going to do what they want to do from thousands of miles away without any regard for those of us that live on the land. And it's heartbreaking, number one, but it also enrages people and rightfully so.

Brennan Summers, Host (09:09):

Yeah, and the precedent that it sets, that local control really is just kind of thrown out the window. You always try to empower the state legislature, so you've proposed if the state legislature doesn't want something, then the federal government really should not do

U.S. Senator James Risch (09:20):

It. Absolutely. And it goes even further than that down. If the county commissioners and the local people don't want it, even to me, that's even more powerful, but they want these extra kilowatts in what they call green energy from this wind, which is, and there's all kinds of things wrong with that. The cost of those things and the fallacy that building a wind tower somehow is a green way to do business. I mean, the cost of those amount of energy that goes into 'em. What most people don't understand also is those blades on there have to be changed regularly, and I've seen pictures that they've got these, they've got landfills where these blades are just stacked up by the thousands and they're not made out of metal. I was surprised when I saw that. I thought you put a blade on there and that was that, but they have to be changed regularly. It's not metal. It's some kind of a composite that you can't even recycle. And so I mean, it's wrong on every level that there is.

Brennan Summers, Host (10:34):

The deeper you dig, the worse it gets is what it sounds like.

U.S. Senator James Risch (10:37):

No question about it. No question about

Brennan Summers, Host (10:38):

That. So give us some hope. You mentioned that this presidential election matters, but you've also introduced legislation. You've teamed up with the delegation, the don't do it act. If anyone wonders what that's about, it's pretty clear.

U.S. Senator James Risch (10:50):

Don't do it. Don't do it. Yeah. Pretty clear.

Brennan Summers, Host (10:52):

Where do we go with that legislation?

U.S. Senator James Risch (10:54):

Well, those are always tough. What you try to do is you try to find a spot when you're doing legislation in DC it is so different than doing legislation here. Here you really can't tinker with legislation and pull a fast one. In Idaho, we have a constitutional requirement that says one bill, one subject matter,

(11:18):

So that's the way it is. You can only legislate one thing at a time. You get a straight up yes or no vote on it back in dc you can put anything in a bill. There's no prohibition on that, so they got everything from abortion to zebras in the same bill, and so you wind up always with a multi-thousand page bill, and it's awful because you're faced almost always when you're faced with one of those, it is a hobson's choice. If there's stuff in there you really love and there's stuff in there that you absolutely hate, so what do you do? And so Mike ple and I always meet before the vote. Our voting record is substantially closer. Well, a lot of states have an R and a D and they just offset each other, but we, out of the almost 5,000 votes I've cast since I've been back there, Mike and I have only separated I think on three of them that were minor pieces. Actually, they were confirmations that weren't even legislation. So we always sit and we talk and make a decision that we're going to, whatever happens, we're going to I Idaho is going to get two votes out of it.

Brennan Summers, Host (12:27):

And one of the reputations you have not just working so closely with Senator Crapo is when there's something like this you don't like that your constituents tell you they don't like that industry and stakeholders say, don't like you, fight like hell to make sure it doesn't happen.

U.S. Senator James Risch (12:37):

We try.

Brennan Summers, Host (12:38):

But on the flip side, senator, there are things that are important that your constituents and stakeholders tell you are important, and you fight like hell to get it, and one legacy you'll have is your advocacy for small businesses. Walk us through why these local gems, these small businesses throughout Idaho, you highlight and you try to empower and make their path to success kind of easier.

U.S. Senator James Risch (12:57):

Small businesses, America, I mean that's what we are all about, is what our economy is all about. Small businesses actually, big business, if you put 'em all together, you wake up in the morning, you open the paper and you say, well, general Electric is hiring a thousand people today or firing a thousand people. Small businesses do that before breakfast every day, but they do 'em one, two at a time and they don't make the headlines, but they are really the backbone of America. And amazingly, if before the internet, before the big box stores, if we were sitting here talking about it, you'd have to think that those two inventions, first the big box stores and then the internet would put small business out of business. They haven't, has it caused them to struggle some, yes. There's no question about that. Has it hurt? Yes. But they're still the main street business.

(13:58):

There's still the heartbeat of this country, and so you want to do everything you possibly can. And when Congress does things so often, they totally ignore small business. They're talking about a rule or a regulation that first of all, you shouldn't be doing anyway. But secondly, big businesses can handle this. I mean, they got an army of lawyers. They got an army of army of accountants. They got an army of compliance officers, a guy that's fixing lawnmowers in his garage. He doesn't have the ability to do that. When he gets this 25 page form that takes two hours to fill out, it's incredible burden for 'em, and they just ignore that. I try to bring that to their attention every time they do that and slap 'em around and say, think about what you're doing.

Brennan Summers, Host (14:48):

There you go. And it's seen, and I know the small business community appreciates the way that you try to fight back on the unnecessary regulations coming down the pipe.

U.S. Senator James Risch (14:55):

Yeah. The regulatory structure is one of the subtle things that really influences businesses in America when first of all, when a Republican gets elected president, stock market always has a big bloom. And why is that? Well, they know that we are just death on regulations. Look, we're supposed to make the law. Congress is supposed to make the law. Now, there is substantially more effect on people's lives that happen from the bureaucracy passing regulations than Congress making laws, and so we push back on that all the time. Regulations are just a horrible, horrible thing. Now, are there some that need to be in place? Of course there are that Congress or state legislature, the best example I always give is fish and game regulations. Well, fish and game regulations have the rule of law behind them, and they should, the legislature can't sit there and determine in each of the game units what the harvest should be, what the shooting hours should be, and days and that sort of thing.

(16:11):

Same way with the federal level with weights and measures. I mean, we can't sit there making regulations on how you have to regulate weights and measures, so there's a place for it. But when you're doing horrendous things, I mean, these guys, you've seen 'em try this where they pass, the president does an executive order scene. Well, if you're in business of manufacturing automobiles, 30% of your cars have to be electric by such and such a date. What the that, that's not the executive branch's job. That's our job. That's a policy decision that's got to be made by Congress. Right or wrong. So we are really big on scene that we, Congress are responsible, elected officials are responsible for what happens and the regulatory stuff. Lava Ridge is a good example of that. I mean, there it is a regulation right in front of you that's biting us badly.

Brennan Summers, Host (17:09):

Yeah, we know you're fighting the good fight on that front, if we had time, we'd get into your good work on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, your work with intelligence. Another time we'll have to pick your brain on how you sleep at night, knowing what you know.

U.S. Senator James Risch (17:20):

We'll do this

Brennan Summers, Host (17:21):

Another time, but Senator, I was privileged, as I said, as an intern to peak at your calendar here and there, and I don't know if I've ever seen a calendar so busy. So as we let you get back to your day, I want to just wrap up. You've been in public service since your twenties and you've given your life at local, state, and federal levels. So, so many different things. What do you say to the people out there who are getting disenfranchised and disengaging on this idea of

U.S. Senator James Risch (17:42):

Public service? That's a really good question. I'd say this, God bless America with the problems we have here and the issues we have here. It's easy to get closed-minded and say, oh, this stuff is so terrible. First of all, as a culture, we are the most fortunate people to ever live on this planet in the history of this planet. We live better. We live freer than anyone has ever lived on this planet with all the problems and all the difficulties that we have. If you travel around the world, you come back here and kiss the ground. One of the things I always said is, if you really want to straighten out this country, require that every high schooler in their junior year leave America, go to a communist country that's a third world country and spend the year there, and then have them come back and finish out their senior year.

(18:33):

This country would be a different country. They would, first of all, have a real appreciation for what we have here in America. Look, we've been through a revolution. We've been through a civil war. We've been through world wars, we've been through a depression. We've been through all kinds of issues, and we're still standing and going to continue to stand, and as long as the people are in charge of this thing, it's going to go on. Is it ever going to settle down? Of course not. Founding fathers didn't want it that way. They wanted it so that we would have a robust democratic argument about it and where things should go. When it's over, we vote and then we live with it.

Brennan Summers, Host (19:11):

God bless America. God

U.S. Senator James Risch (19:12):

Bless

Brennan Summers, Host (19:13):

America. Senator, keep up the good fight. We're praying for you. Appreciate your time today.

U.S. Senator James Risch (19:16):

Thank you.

Brennan Summers, Host (19:17):

Okay, till next time.

Eric Stamps 9/3/24 Eric Stamps 9/3/24

Idaho Agriculture and Natural Resources

Episode 3 Representative Laurie Lickley—Main Street Idaho Podcast Season 3

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Virtually joining us from Salmon, Idaho, is Representative Laurie Lickley out of District 25. On episode 3 of the Main Street Idaho Podcast, Representative Lickley details her native Idahoan background advocating for agriculture and natural resources. At the height of agricultural debates throughout Idaho, Lickley outlines why and how she will represent her constituents in her run for the Senate.

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Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (00:00):

Welcome to the Idaho Main Street Podcast where we talk about the issues that matter to you. Welcome to the Idaho Main Street podcast. We're lucky today be joined by a fixture of Idaho agriculture and a friend to Idaho politics, Lori, likely. Lori, thanks so much for being on the podcast today.

Laurie Lickley (00:25):

Well, good morning, Brennan, and thanks for having me. Thanks for the invitation to join you. I look forward to the conversations

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (00:31):

You're joining us live from your childhood, your childhood hometown of salmon in Idaho, where you're telling us you had stories of mowing the lawn and seeing rattlesnakes and picking raspberries and running into rattlers. So you've got all the stories for us today.

Laurie Lickley (00:47):

I do. I am certain that we don't have time to share all of them, but yes, many stories of picking raspberries annually with rattlesnakes mowing the lawn with rattlesnakes. Today the chipmunks are running over my legs, and so I'd rather have chipmunks than rattlesnakes, but I am home A to check on my family. But B, we signed a lease agreement with the Idaho Fish and Game just a couple months ago on a reclamation pond right here on the Salmon River that we have opened to the public for fishing in memory of my father. And so I'm here to check out the fishing pond, watch the chipmunks, and maybe ride a mule with my brother behind the house in memory of my dad.

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (01:32):

That's very sentimental. Love that and hope that that's a good experience and then you catch some big ones. This is your first time on the podcast. We're going to have to dig in a little bit. We know you grew up in Sam Idaho, a former president of the Idaho Cattle Association, former legislator in the house, representative, current candidate for Senate seat District 26. Give our audience a little bit of background into who you are and what makes you take

Laurie Lickley (02:00):

Idaho grown. Idaho raised. I grew up on the banks of the Salmon River, really understanding not only Idaho agriculture, but Idaho's natural resource industry. My dad had an outfitting and guide business in my early years and then went on to sell part of it and teach a high school government in history. I spent a lot of time riding my horses, showing four H steers, doing a little bit of rodeoing. I think that not only that high school government from my father, which I might add, that was the only BI got in high school, was from my father in government and civics when I really didn't think I needed to pay attention. However, I think that really resonated and my family homesteaded in Idaho in the early 19 hundreds. My husband's family homesteaded in Idaho in the early 19 hundreds. We really care about Idaho and my background is agriculture and natural resource. I've a degree from the University of Idaho in agriculture economics, and that's where I met my husband and he took me home to the ranch in Jerome, and we've been there for 34 plus years. I can tell you that we care about Idaho and more importantly, I love the beef industry. I serve from a local to a national level, and I really look forward to taking another run at the Senate.

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (03:31):

So we got to go back a little bit to your first run in Boise. So you went to Boise, you decided your love of Idaho fueled you into running for local office and the state to be the representative for district, I think it was 24 at the time before it got redistricted. Tell us about what your experience was like as a legislator.

Laurie Lickley (03:54):

Yeah. I spent two terms in the Idaho House of Representatives Brennan, and that was legislative District 25, which was all of Jerome and most of rural Fin Falls County and fully enjoyed my time there. Spent both all four years on health and welfare and resources and conservation under the very, very good leadership of Dr. Fred Wood and Mark Gibbs. Two very, very stalwart gentlemen in my opinion, who both took me under their wings. I was able appointed by the governor to serve on the behavioral health council. I ended my time in the house as chairman of resources and conservation, and we really tackled some very challenging but very rewarding projects during those four years. And I was actually really sad to see my time and there was so much more that I wanted to do on water issues, stock water issues. There was more I wanted to do on mental health, much more we could have done on tax relief. But then redistricting happened and Jerome was placed with Lincoln and Blaine County and we had a pretty tumultuous, I think run and it was a pretty big defeat going in. I did expect that I would be victorious and I didn't realize that I had a lot of different factions fighting me on both sides.

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (05:30):

Let's talk a little bit about those factions. So you are not a stranger to politics, you're not a stranger to campaigns and elections, and so you know what it takes to win, but you were looking at a little different constituency you thought you were going to win as you mentioned. What was it that really surprised you about that election that maybe moved the needle against you?

Laurie Lickley (05:53):

I think the thing that surprised me the most was the outside money and the amount of outside money that came in from groups like Planned Parenthood to support my candidate and oppose me. There were websites built, there were social media campaigns, mailers that went out that really disparaged my character in regards to the trigger legislation that was passed. And I was very disappointed to see that my character and my integrity were thrown under the bus. But I think this legislative district is extremely diverse and I think we've got extreme on both sides. I've taken it from my own party in my legislative district and I've taken it from the far left, and I think both of them got me two years ago. And I'm hopeful that this time around we're meeting people where they're at, we're able to have a broader dialogue around the issues and I hope we have a chance to visit with about some of those that matter to all of them because I can knock on one door Brennan and get somebody who wants to talk about contraception.

(07:08):

I can knock on another door that they want to talk about school vouchers and then I can talk about knock on a door just across the street. And they are frustrated with the political environment. And so I think being able to listen to the constituency is going to be huge in this ground game. But two years ago it was tough. I'm not going to lie. I think that there's a period of grieving, much like many of my colleagues and friends had happen on May 21st. I think you grieve, you're sad, you're angry, and then you're able to kind of gather yourself relook at things and develop a plan that is in the best interest of Idaho. I am Idaho, I care about Idaho and I care about Idaho's future.

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (07:59):

And you've made the decision after being defeated and getting back to your very busy life on the farm and family, what was it that kind of prompted you to say, you know what, the Idaho Senate is the place that I need to be now?

Laurie Lickley (08:16):

Yeah, I think the Idaho Senate, I set a goal about eight years ago to be in the Senate. And so this first of all is kind of a natural fed, but I looked deep, had a lot of conversations with people that I trust not only in the Magic Valley but across the state about what the dynamics in the Senate would look like. How do we move forward? What is the mechanism to create solutions that work for Idaho, not only today and remembering our past, but really kind of setting us up for future success? And I knew that with my experience and specifically in the and natural resource policy arenas and pushing back sometimes on burdensome federal regulations, I was the best person for the job. And I'm Idaho grown, Idaho raised, I want to work on Idaho solutions for the future. So I dug deep. We had a family meeting. I said, are you all in this with me to put our neck out again and make a run for the Senate? And they all said, yeah, yeah, mom, yeah, honey, let's do it. We have your back. My neighbors have my back. I'm ready to do it again because I do think with my background, I am the best person for the job.

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (09:44):

And you've got a unique perspective now in that you've sat in the capitol in Boise and experienced what policymaking looks like there. You've experienced it as a voter, as an advocate before and after being an elected leader. So let's dig into some of those issues you talk about that the doors you not care about. So you mentioned education. What is it that your constituents previously and the voters now communicate to you most is important when it comes to education in Idaho?

Laurie Lickley (10:15):

Well, education is freedom, and they really know that if we can get our young people educated, they're going to be a strong participant in Idaho's workforce. But it's going to take us all agreeing to come forward with education plans that work. I spent a lot of time during the four years I was in the Idaho House working on early childhood education, making certain that our families, that our business community, that our communities had the tools they needed to help our parents get their children ready for school, getting them literate by the third grade. I've also been a big supporter of K through 12 education and school choice I know has an amazing abundancy of school choice. I know my children went to a private Christian school for the first few years and then went out to a small public school, the Valley School District to finish out their education.

(11:19):

They got a great education in both capacities and I think the more we can engage our parents in this process, support our teachers, the better off we're going to be. I've also been a big proponent of higher education, whether that's continuing technical education or continuing to support our land grant institution, the University of Idaho, whether it be Idaho State University that focuses on a lot of pharmacy and other trades, university state. We've got some really amazing higher educational institutions in Idaho. And I really want to work together for solutions that work not only now, but in the future. I don't think burning down our education system is an option. I think it's going to take us all working together to come forward with the plan that works and I don't want is a perfect example of that. Finding in demand careers and supporting our students to come back into the workforce and serve our local economies and our communities well.

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (12:23):

Yeah, and we could obviously spend hours talking about education and we know that there's going to be some exciting education opportunities and debates when it comes to policymaking there. Let's go from education to an issue that we know is really important for your neck of the woods. There's a lot of public lands in your area, and when it comes to how those lands are managed, it causes some hot debates. You mentioned your drive this morning and yesterday. Skies are a little hazy. So it's fire season and fire season is long in Idaho. Walk us through what you've experienced as a farmer, as a legislator, as a hopeful senator when it comes to how we ought to manage these federal lands.

Laurie Lickley (13:06):

This has been something we've battled. And again, I think it would take a lot longer than we have time here, Brennan on this podcast. But I grew up on the banks of the Salmon River where we had three timber mills and agriculture, and those were the two industries that drove our local economy. And I can tell you we have zero timber mills here. Agriculture is no longer the driving force. We used to have a creamery on Main Street too. The spotted Owl shut down the logging industry here. And with that shutdown has come a ripple effect. We no longer have the infrastructure to support management of our forest service lands. And so I have seen the implications to our rural communities when they don't manage the lands as they're intended to be managed and wildfires, we're seeing the inability, I think, to manage our timber, our fuel loads.

(14:13):

Many know that for fires to get out of hand, they've got to have oxygen, they've got to have a fuel load, and then they've got to have heat. And we're seeing all of those right now and I think the wheels of federal management of our public lands move so slowly that we can't get them managed to the degree they need to be managed. We can't get in there and harvest that, the dead and disease timber or they want to cut our grazing AUMs as they have over the years because of the endangered species like slick spot pepper grass and sage grouse. And yet we have research that shows that we can coexist and that we are grazing is something that is not only sustainable, but it actually supports some of these species and it reduces the field load. Idaho has led the way in rangeland fire protection associations and letting our ranchers and our rural community members be the first line of defense on these fires.

(15:18):

I think Idaho and the Good Neighbor Authority, there's another example of partnering with the Forest Service to let us manage Forest Service lands, harvest the timber share in some of those revenues. I think when we do it the Idaho way, we're going to be a lot better off. We could talk about Lava Ridge too. I feel like we're getting the heavy hand of a federal executive order for large scale wind and solar projects on our federal lands in Idaho being pushed down our throat and Idaho is saying no. And we've told them no on multiple issues over the years, whether it be endangered species issues, waters of the United States, et cetera. It just, I don't know, it gets a little bit frustrating. I mean, the only thing that is consistent is those of us that have been out here on the land for now, well over 100 years, we know what works. We know what doesn't work. We're willing to partner with people who understand how to collaborate, how to cooperate, and how to make the best decisions out on our resources, whether it be timber or whether it be range lands.

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (16:31):

You and I, we've been fortunate, we've been on a few forests together, we've been on some tours, we've been out in the wooded areas, and this isn't an issue of support for public lands. And you've expressed you've got a deep appreciation for the natural resources of Idaho and the right way to protect and conserve that which ought to be protected and conserved, but also to utilize what we need to for industry. It really isn't, I mean, I don't want to speak for you, but you're not advocating for clear cuts across the state and turning over state and federal lands for private sales, are you?

Laurie Lickley (17:07):

No, I'm certainly not. I want to keep our public lands in public hands. I think the opportunity to recreate and enjoy Idaho's amazing and beautiful outdoors is something that makes Idaho, Idaho. I'm looking to collaborate, to cooperate, to pull people in who have a broader vision to support that resource, whether it be our logging industry, whether it be our ranchers, whether it be our creators, how do we balance the all hands, all lands approach? How do we balance conservation, multiple use? And I think we've got a lot of really smart people, Brennan in Idaho, and I think if we pull them to the table, we look at the landscape, we collaborate and we look at the future on how to maintain our rural economies, I think we can come forward with some pretty amazing solutions. And yeah, no, I care about Idaho. I care about her.

(18:14):

I can tell you one thing that my brother wants us to keep working on is in the National Forest Forest and in the wilderness areas, chainsaws are considered motorized vehicles and we can't clear, our volunteers can't clear trails, and it's frustrating. It's something my dad fought during his time with the Idaho and the National Backcountry Horsemen. They're simple things that, gosh, if our outfitters or my brother who packs into the back country in Idaho, they could take a chainsaw with them and help clear some of those trails that might help with fire suppression. So I think we've got a lot of great people in Idaho that could work on solutions that might help with fires, that might help with all sorts of things.

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (19:12):

Yeah, it's a wonderful thing when you can sprinkle a little bit of logic into a situation. It's just doesn't happen often enough when it comes to federal bureaucracy. You mentioned Lava Ridge. For those who know about the Lva Ridge project, it is controversial to some and absolutely infuriating to many in Idaho, but there are a lot of people and maybe some of our listeners that aren't familiar with it. So you referenced, walk us through where it's at and what they're trying to do with the Lava Ridge Wind Farm.

Laurie Lickley (19:42):

Yeah, the Love for Ridge Wind Energy Project is a large scale wind energy project proposed in Jerome Lincoln Counties. I think there might be a little bit that was proposed in Mendocha, but I believe the final pulled most of it out of there, and therefore most of it would be on in Lincoln and Jerome counties. And the final EIS was released late this spring and they had pared it down considerably from what it was being proposed. But the communities have spoken and they've spoken loudly, but they've also spoken with the friends of Mendocha, which the internment camp is right there. And most recently we see that the Idaho, Idaho Conservation League this morning in the Times News has come out in support of it. And so seeing a conservation organization supporting this large scale project is very concerning. And Lava Ridge for me is the one taking all the heat.

(20:49):

There's 10 other large scale renewable wind and solar projects proposed on federal lands in the Snake River plain. And so while Lava Ridge is the one taking all the heat, we've really got to be attuned to watching those others. But the thing that's most frustrating for me on the Lava Ridge Project Brennan, is the fact that this was an executive order from the Biden administration the first month of his presidency when he put forward a proposal in an executive order for large scale renewable wind and solar projects on federal lands at the same time, he put out an executive order for a 30 by 30 conservation plan across the United States and on our federal lands. I don't know about you, but that sounds like it's pretty in conflict. And I'm not sure that renewable energy development is on the same multiple use field as let's say, grazing or recreation.

(21:53):

And so I've really kind of pushed back from the beginning on this project and our entire community, our county commissioners, our city councils, our governor, we've had everybody we know, including our congressional folks pushing back on this Congressman Simpson, Senator Rich, and when our local voices should matter on federal lands. And I've asked Idaho to come forward with an Idaho energy plan to really assist our local counties in how to navigate these large scale projects on public lands because a component of that is going to be conditional use and special use permits that our local planning and zoning groups are going to have to decide. And so what do we do? I mean, Lincoln County maybe wants a Jerome County that is just speculative. Neither one of them want it, but you know what happens if you have a patchwork of conditional use permits? What about our roads and bridges?

(23:01):

I mean, I know that I've got family where some of these roads to take in these large turbines. I mean, how are they going to get them through those small county roads? I mean, are they going to get into their grazing lots or they're going to get into their hay fields or their corn fields? I just don't think we're looking at all of the implications that a project of this size, and I do question that we're on the cusp of other clean renewable energy like nuclear. We've got digesters going in on our dairies. I really think we need to hit pause on some of this and really focus on addressing Idaho's energy needs in a different capacity. And

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (23:46):

I'm obviously not in the business of fear mongering or pushing the big red button that says the sky's falling. But it is concerning that there can be individuals working out of DC who can make decisions that drastically affect the lives of say, small town Idahoans without what appears to be any public support from those in the communities. And you mentioned the EIS, which is an environmental impact statement. So they go through their bureaucratic paperwork of making sure that they check the boxes of what it's going to do to the environment, but it appears that the locals have been very opposed to this, but that the administration, secretary Holland seems like they're still pushing it through.

Laurie Lickley (24:33):

And that's certainly the sense that we get. I know that the environmental impact statements are supposed to include a socioeconomic component to that. And I know as we work through grazing permit renewals, that socioeconomic component is supposed to be included. You're supposed to get what the community wants. I think the federal government continues to ignore what the local people are requesting. And it is extremely frustrating as we started this conversation. The local people know best, and this is our land too. It is federally managed, but this is our land. It is in with our borders. I think that socioeconomic component has got to be considered in absolutely everything. And I don't care whether it's a grazing permit renewal, whether it's a mineral right or whatever. I think you've, you've got to include your local community in that analysis. And in this instance, the local community has spoken, we don't like it.

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (25:43):

And at the core of this is the idea that those who are affected most should have a proportional voice to the way in which they'll be affected. And moving on from Lava Ridge, but somewhat connected, you reference, most people hear of this large scale wind farm's going to go into Idaho, and there's a lot of problems that come with that. And people initially can talk about, well, what's that going to do to so many things of our landscape and the way that we view this and our economies and all these other things. You can pull out things like grazing permits. And I think it lends itself to the importance of having somebody who thinks about grazing permits and understands what an effect that that has on the agriculture community has on policymaking. So we've talked in the past to there used to be the ID legislatures used to be packed with farmers and ranchers, and that's not the case anymore. It seems like y'all are a dying breed over there. Why is it so important that we have those who actually have real experience in agriculture at the table when it comes to policymaking in Idaho?

Laurie Lickley (26:50):

Yeah, and I did a little back of the napkin analysis last fall. Brennan Idaho, as short as 10 years ago, used to have over 20% of the legislative body made their living in some sort of production agriculture. Either directly or indirectly, that number has dropped to about the 10 or 12% range right now. Now we're still higher than our surrounding states, but why does it matter? It means that we have to work. We have worked for decades to improve our communities. We are not afraid to get our hands dirty. We're not afraid to work hard. I can tell you that those in the agriculture industries weather, the volatility, a commodity prices, we see life and death sometimes within seconds of each other. We watched and weathered mother nature's vicious hardships and we build resiliency. And I think sometimes other, some may say they support agriculture, but do they really know what it means to have calves frozen to the ground when you've got days and days and days of Sub-Zero temperatures?

(28:11):

Do they know what it's like when a hailstorm takes out their corn and they don't have the crop to market or the flood that comes through and takes out everything or the piece of equipment that broke down that you can't get the part for two weeks, neighbors helping neighbors, getting your fingers dirty, getting your boots dirty. I think those of us in agriculture understands what it takes. We're not afraid to work hard. And I can tell you that's one of the big differences between me and my opponent is I've certainly not seen him at all on the Idaho Ag All Star list. And I can tell you those in LD 26 deserves somebody that's not or that is willing to get their feet dirty. I can spend all day in a tractor. I can spend all day on the back of a horse. I can spend all day. Well, I don't think I can spend all day on the end of a shovel anymore though, Brennan, I'm afraid that I might wear out after about an hour. But we're not afraid. We're resilient. We know how to solve problems. We know how to critically think, and we recognize that we're not the expert in all areas, but we darn sure know who to call to pull in to help us weather whatever storm it looks like.

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (29:31):

And we really do take for granted the importance of agriculture in Idaho. Way too often. It's not just a campaign slogan that Idaho farmers feed the world and that it is the backbone of our economy, but times change. And as you've already pointed out, if we continue on a trend where we end up with nobody at the table who understands ag policy making ag policy, it's problematic. But I also worry about the days when candidates can get elected that are not Ag Pro education, pro ag. We like those people. Everybody is pro ag in education, but that's slowly not becoming the case in Idaho. And does that concern you?

Laurie Lickley (30:10):

No, it certainly does concern me. We see candidates touting their ag, supportive ag, and then when it comes down to voting on legislation that the cattle industry or the dairy industry or the water users wants their group's support and they don't support that in the legislature, I find that problematic. And so yeah, it's easy to say, okay, I grew up on a farm or my grandpa farmed and so forth, but it's where the rubber meets the road. You've, you've got to understand agriculture, you've got to know where to go to get the information, and you've got to work with those groups. I always found that I am a beef producer and a rancher vertically integrated now, but I darn sure don't know a whole lot about the wheat or the dairy industry per se. So I'm going to go to those industry organizations and say, what do your members want?

(31:16):

How do we help you? What are the policies that we need to help you? And I am seeing that's not the case anymore, and that downright scares me to death. And I don't want to see us become like Oregon or Washington or California. We look at the regulatory environment there in regards to agriculture. And if we don't start looking at our candidates very closely about how they support agriculture, we're going to be in a heap of hert. We're watching, I know between 2017 and 2022, there was over 140,000 acres of good prime agricultural land taken out of production in Idaho in Jerome County alone. Last year we had 111 acres and just for reference and acres about the size of a football field converted, converted out of agricultural land and put into some sort of other use. We're seeing that trend continue across Idaho, and half of the farm receipts in Idaho come right out of the Magic Valley too. We are a big supporter and a contributor to the gross domestic product of Idaho. And a lot of our product can't be consumed inside our walls. We've got to export it out of there, but it is the engine that drives our rural communities. It drives my community in Jerome. It drives the Magic Valley. It drives Lincoln County, and we've really got to, I think, make sure that we're looking at candidates who understand Idaho agriculture and it contributions to Idaho's economy.

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (32:52):

Yeah, well said. Well said. We started today talking about rattlesnakes in salmon. We got into your election, your family's history, born and raised in Idaho, and your desire to get involved in Idaho legislature, the painful loss and the role that out-of-State money put in, trying to take a conservative seat in turning it liberal, we got into the issues that mattered most to your communities. You talked about the importance of education concerns over land management and adamant opposition to the Lava Ridge Project. The concerns there, we got into the importance of agriculture and having people that understand ag and having ag work ethic at the table. We've covered a lot. Excuse me. What I think is important to end with that we tend to do with all of our first time guests is we like to throw people on the spot. Our studio tech, Casey's already laughing. He knows exactly what questions coming, Laurie, we love to ask people, what is one book in your life that you've read that you would recommend that everybody that can hear your voice right now should read?

Laurie Lickley (33:59):

Oh dear. Well, those that follow me on social media know that I've been a part of a book club Four Ladies for, I dunno, well over a decade. We have one Democrat, three Republicans, three Catholics, one Methodist. We're a very diverse group. And so we've read a lot of books over the years and I usually have a hard copy of a book and I'm usually listening to one another one at the same time. But the book that stands out to me that I have in my library I took to the Capitol with me to remind me of who I am is the book that justice, Sandra Day O'Connor penned with her brother Alan Day called The Lazy Bee. It talks about her time growing up on the Arizona New Mexico border and kind of the birth of the Bureau of Land Management. She watched it grow right there. But I watched her resiliency and I think that propelled her. And she's kind of, I don't know, I kind of geek out over Sandra Day, so the Lazy Bee, but then how she went on to be the first woman in the Supreme Court and appointed by President Reagan. And I kind like, I want to be Sandra Day. And so the Lazy Bee with Alan Day really just sets the foundation for her and her life and it really almost to some degrees that kind of lays the stage for mine.

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (35:30):

Yeah, the Lazy Bee. Thank you for that recommendation. I'm pretty sure that was my nickname that my dad called me because I am not good at the end of a shovel. But we know, Laurie, you've got some fishing that you hopefully will get to do today. Maybe a little bit of mule riding with your family, but it's always back to work, both campaigning and getting involved on the farm and making sure everything's run properly. Thank you so much for your time. We appreciate your insights and we definitely appreciate your service. So any last words you'd like to leave us with?

Laurie Lickley (36:00):

No, just thank you for the opportunity to visit with you. And the one issue that we did not get to talk about was creating a safe environment to talk about women's health. And I'm really enjoying my time on the Idaho Contraceptive Education Network, making sure that we protect access to contraception, in vitro fertilization, and again, keeping government out of the doctor's offices in women's health.

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (36:27):

Well, I'll make you a deal. How about we're going to set aside some time. If you can find any few spare minutes for us, let's have you back on and we can talk specifically about that issue.

Laurie Lickley (36:38):

Alright. Well, again, thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. And until we talk again,

Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (36:43):

Thank you so much. Until next time.

Eric Stamps 8/29/24 Eric Stamps 8/29/24

Disagree Better

Episode 2 Utah Governor Spencer Cox—Main Street Idaho Podcast Season 3

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Live from the Governor's Mansion in Salt Lake City, Utah, Governor Spencer Cox sits down with our host, Brennan Summers, to share about his background in public service and his time as the Governor of Utah. Governor Cox explains his bipartisan initiative, Disagree Better, emphasizing respectful conflict resolution to grow healthier political relationships with friends, family, and disagreeing parties from across the aisle.

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(00:11):

Welcome to the Idaho Main Street podcast. We're recording live today here in the Governor's mansion in Salt Lake City, Utah with Governor Spencer Cox. Governor, thanks so much for joining us, Brandon. It's great to be with you. I've been looking forward to this for a long time. I'm glad that you would lum it down south of the border with the good people of Utah I 15 construction is what we endured for you today. I'm glad you made it. We're grateful to have you here in the mansion. Yeah, this feels full circle for me because I picked up on the Coxon Friends podcast from day one, and I loved that atmosphere being able, it's like you and my mom are the only two people. That's right. That's right. Those two. I loved the atmosphere for what you and your friends were able to create, talking about important issues in a way that felt just very comfortable for people.

(00:53)
Well, I miss it, and so I'm glad we get to do this. We may have to fire the old Coxin friends up sometime, but this is the next best thing. Is this a hint? Is there a chance? No. Well, not right now. Maybe second term we'll see. All right. I guess you are pretty busy with other things. A lot going on right now. It's good. Good, good. This is the Idaho Main Street podcast, so some of our listeners, largely Idahoans over their plates of mashed potatoes right now are wondering what's a Utah governor getting on this podcast? But you have a lot of connection to the Gem State. I do. Obviously Utah and Idaho just have a lot of connection always. We always have. From the early days, the settlers that came, those pioneers that came across, and almost everyone I know from Utah has family in Idaho and vice versa.

(01:38)
So we spent a lot of time in Idaho and just really, really, I spent a few weeks between my junior and senior year at what was in Rick's College. It was called the Summer Honors Institute, and that was four or five weeks that I was there that that was a pretty magical summer for me as well. So yeah, love the Gem State's because you were in Rexburg in the summer and not the winter. That's why it was magical. That's why we loved it. Well, as Utah State grad, I mean Logan Rexburg, it's very similar. We did. I tried to get a couple of minutes in this podcast for you and I embellishing our Aggie roots, but we did it. We're here. Go Aggies. That's right. All right. So it's not just the fact that we're geographical neighbors. We got a lot in common, a lot of businesses going across borders.

(02:18)
What's it been like working with Governor little as neighbors, governing neighbors? So it's incredible. My time with Governor Little actually started when we were both Lieutenant governors and it's interesting because our elections are not at the same time we are on the presidential cycle. You are not. It was great for me to kind of model things after what was happening there. So you had a lieutenant governor who was running for governor, very similar kind of state, similar atmosphere, watched similar opponents, almost even. You had Tommy, the business guy who was running, who had lots of money. You had an established member of Congress. There were just so many similarities, and I love Governor Little. We worked together as Lieutenant Governors very closely. We've worked together very closely as governors on WGA, the Western Governor's Association, the National Governor's Association that I chaired, and I've learned a lot from him.

(03:20)
He may have learned a few things from me, but we certainly talk often and share the similar challenges and opportunities. Yeah, sure. So many similarities there. You actually came up and spent some time at the Idaho National Lab recently. What was that like? Yeah, loved it. Loved the Idaho National Lab. We're a little jealous of that lab, but the strength of the lab lies in our ability to collaborate together, and I think Utah brings something to the lab that helps both of us and we care deeply about energy. It's one of the biggest issues facing our country right now. I don't think enough people understand the energy demand curve that we're facing right now. And the only way, if you care about our economies, you care about the environment at all. We need nuclear power, and so we're all in and we have so much to learn from INL and the great people there.

(04:15)
Yeah, I know there's some really good collaborative partnerships between the state that are breaking out when it comes to energy and things like that. To our listeners that aren't familiar with your origin story, you've got an initial one, you'll be very uncomfortable with this comparison, but to those that study your coming to be in public service, it fills at times like Washington called Off the Plantation, but instead it's Spencer called Off the Cattle Farm in Fairview, starting as a city councilman and then a mayor of Fairview and then into county commissioner. What was it about having such close proximity in your early days of public service that kept you from just hanging it up and then calling it good then? Well, look, I'll quote another founding father. I'm a Jefferson guy, and Jefferson believed that the power closest to the people was always the best, the most important, and I was grateful for that.

(05:06)
So my dad was on the city council when I was a kid growing up, and then he was the mayor of our little town, town of Fairview, about 1200 people. I was always really proud of that, but then realized everybody's dad was on the city council at some point, we kind of took turns and that's how it works. And so when I decided to move back after law school in Virginia, came back home, worked for a big law firm and realized my wife and I, who grew up on a ranch in the town next to us, we went to high school together. We wanted to raise our kids on a farm. We wanted them to have the same upbringing that when I moved back, it was six months later that they asked me to be on the city council. There was a vacancy and they were pointing somebody, and I just felt really honored that they would ask me and turns out they couldn't get anybody else to do it.

(05:50)
That was the main reason. And they needed some legal help for, they couldn't afford an attorney. So it was doing free legal work for the town. It just felt like giving back. One of the things that both Idaho and Utah have in common is this service. We lead the nation in service and charitable giving every year. It's kind of part of our DNA from the time where we're young. And having seen it with my own dad, it was a chance to give back to the community that had given me everything I was grateful for that never expected to be here. That was not part of a lot of people. A lot of governors from the time they were five years old, knew that they were going to be governor someday and worked towards that, had a life plan to that the accidental governor in every sense.

(06:36)
After county commission, I ran for the House of Representatives, got elected, and I was only there for nine months when our lieutenant governor resigned, governor Herbert out of nowhere, I barely knew him, asked me to be his lieutenant governor, and that was the shocker that no one expected. But I feel like I'm the luckiest guy in the world and grateful that we governor little and I get to represent the best people on earth. And it does feel like at times you stumbled into the job, but very well prepared. And as you look back, do you find yourself saying, if I didn't have that experience sitting on the city council in Fairview, then I would maybe look at this problem on a state level a little different. Oh, sure. Yeah. In fact, I wish there was a requirement that everybody who runs for legislative office or for Congress or for governor, any higher office in the land, I wish there was a requirement that they had to have prior local public service at the city or county level changes everything.

(07:31)
I can tell you that the best legislators I know are former mayors, city council members, county commissioners. They understand that this isn't like an episode of West Wing a game when you're dealing with a 29 billion budget, we are, those numbers don't even feel real. And unless you understand that everything you do has a consequence, then you kind of don't get it. But when you go to the post office or the grocery store and you have to look people in the eye, if your phone's ringing at two in the morning because the neighbor's dog's barking, somebody neighbor's dog is barking. That's real. That's real to people. And I try really hard never to forget that I had an employee at the city. We had eight employees, or maybe not even, maybe it was like six and two of them were part-time, small town. But he always said, every day I ask myself, is the widow Madson proud of what I did today because she's paying for me on a fixed income, has nothing.

(08:46)
Her husband passed away. I love Widow Matson. I was friends with her daughter. So I've always thought of that. It's easy to say, yeah, let's spend here. Let's do this, but would the widow Matson be happy with what I'm doing today? And I'm grateful for that background and that upbringing because we talk a lot on the podcast about architects versus arsonists and at the local government level, it's really hard to be an arsonist. It's really hard to just burn things down, but no, on everything and not care. But you got city employees relying on you to get it right, whether you're organizing Easter egg hunt or you're making sure fire and police are taken care of, you can't just vote knowing everything, right? That's right. And I love the architects and Arsonist framework. I use it all the time. Builders and destroyers, and look, there are architects that are on the far right, the far left, the middle, and there are arsonists, lots of arsonists on the far left and the far right.

(09:37)
And there are arsonists in the middle too, people that just want to tear down. It's interesting. You're right about the local level for sure. Congress has too many arsonists and we see that governors, it's a little harder. There are certainly some of those, but mostly if you're a governor, you have to get stuff done. And we like to say that potholes aren't partisan, and there's this competition between 50 states. I want my state to be the best. I don't wants to be the best. And so we're constantly stealing ideas. And I will say that is true, not just Republicans stealing ideas from other Republicans, but across party lines. If somebody's figured something out that's working, we want to do it and we want to do it better than them. So I like that competition piece as well. I think it's important, but certainly just solving problems is why I got into government, and I hate that it's getting harder to solve problems and it's driving away some of our very best people.

(10:35)
And I hope we can turn that around. Which leads us right into your initiative. You just finished as chairman of the National Governor's Association, and you got to pick, you could decide, are you going to talk about federal overreach? Are you going to talk about public lands issues? You could talk about some of the great work that the First Lady's doing with showing up for Utah, foster families, public education, a lot of good priorities. How did you land on disagree better? Yeah, we actually had several good ideas. I remember sitting actually upstairs here, the governor's mansion with my team, and we were whiteboarding some issues, pros and cons. I was really close to doing something around the rising cost of healthcare. The one that I kind of actually landed on though was critical minerals and energy policy and how we're doing it poorly and how we could do it better.

(11:28)
And then we had had this other idea in the back of our mind and one of my team members just said, Hey, I love all of these ideas, but the problem is we can't solve any of our biggest problems today if we all hate each other. And with the arson is not even a word. The arson that's just happening in the federal government that we're seeing, we desperately need to change that. Things that we saw during election cycles, both at the federal level and the state level and that thus was born disagree better. We had no idea what we were getting into. We weren't sure anybody would care. Anybody would listen to us. And so we launched the initiative and it was really fascinating to see there is a hunger out there for this. One of the first meetings we had before we even launched, just to kind of get some good ideas, we brought together all of these groups across the country who were doing what we affectionately call a depolarization work.

(12:32)
And these were groups on the right and the left and the middle, and we brought them all together in a room and it was incredible. Two things were incredible. One to see the work that they were actually doing was amazing. Groups like Braver Angels and More in Common, just so cool to see the things that they're working on. But two, they'd never been in a room together and many of them kind of toiling in obscurity. They've been doing it for years, and they were so excited and so grateful that finally there was a convener at a national level who had a platform that could elevate the work that they were doing. And so we didn't want to go in and recreate everything. We didn't want to take credit for the work that they were doing. We just wanted to elevate them, try to get them more resources and learn from them.

(13:22)
And that's what we were able to do. We learned that 70% of Americans hate what's happening in politics right now. So there really is. We used to refer to kind of the silent majority in our country. We affectionately call them the exhausted majority now. And we were working with some of these amazing labs universities. So Stanford has an incredible depolarization lab. Duke is doing great work in this space. Dartmouth as well. We were able to work with some of these researchers that are just brilliant and figuring out how we can depolarize this crazy cycle that we're in. And it's been fun work. I've loved it. And we ended up having to say no to hundreds of opportunities to speak to a peer in different news stations. And it renewed my hope. I guess I can say that in our country because it's important to outline what this is and what it's not.

(14:25)
So you came out and said, people have forgotten how to persuade and without hating each other and without fighting. And what disagree better is not is. It's not asking anybody to water down their police and passions. And it's not, as you just mentioned about ideology. It's not about asking everybody just to step to the middle and just meet me in the middle. It's not about conformity, it's about solutions. It's about engaging our mutual friend, Claire Canfield at Utah State. He teaches on the beauty of conflict if you do it right. Yeah, my former roommate, I have to say, it's no college. That's right. And we went to high school together. So the beauty of conflict, I love that we talked a lot about healthy conflict. Conflict has kind of a negative connotation, but it's not, conflict is neutral. There's healthy and then there's unhealthy conflict.

(15:11)
And I love Claire's framing of that. And you were able to kind of engage people on this different level where this wasn't policy or political, it's just about practice, about how we disagree and how we engage. Typically, when we think of leaders, we look at strong leaders are the ones that can enact conformity. We think of the strong leader that's standing in front of the troops yelling. And at times I think those who've been critical have viewed disagree better as not a strong man, as kind of a softer sensitive approach to politics. That's not the case. In your perspective, you view this as essential part of leadership. Why is that? Yeah. It's interesting that the criticisms that have come, and I do, I always start by defining disagree better by what it's not right. And it's not about just being nicer to each other, although we certainly need that.

(15:59)
It's not another civility initiative, at least the way we perceive civility. I think civility properly understood is about conflict and healthy conflict and conflict resolution. But the true answer is it's the only way to do this. It is the only way that works and it isn't easy. To those who think this is soft or squishy or whatever, they could not be more wrong. There is nothing easier than just listening to Fox News or M-S-N-B-C and then regurgitating whatever they told you to say last night. This is real work, and it takes strong leaders to actually pull it off. And I don't always get it right. It's so much easier to set up a straw man to tear down the other side instead of actually understanding where the other side is coming from and then trying to persuade them. And that's what we used to do better as a country.

(16:49)
It's certainly what we've gotten away from. But there is nothing new about disagree, better. This is as old as there have been human beings in families. This goes back to the very beginning, depending on where you believe the beginning is. But this is about two brothers fighting about killing each other in the Bible. It is about if you've ever, as I did, I was in business for a long time, if you've ever been a leader of people in that space, it is about conflict resolution, but it's more important now than ever before because the Constitution was set up to drive this. There's an incredible book that everyone should read by one of my favorite authors that just came out, Yuval Lavin. You should read his prior book called A Time to Build, which is about what we've been talking, how institutions are failing and we're becoming more polarized.

(17:42)
But this book that just came out, it's called American Covenant. It's about the constitution and how the Constitution was designed to drive us towards building consensus. That's why it's so frustrating to us. And we think that frustration is a flaw that we can't get anything done in Washington dc, that we have these different institutions, this balance checks and balances that make it really hard to get stuff done. But that was purposeful because they wanted to drive us to actually having to engage with those. As Yuval says, those damn people, we hope we will win this election, and then we never have to talk to those people anymore. Well, no, the Constitution says, you always have to talk to those people. If you want to do the thing you want to do, you actually have to talk to those people. And that's frustrating, but it's so important.

(18:33)
And sadly, we've kind of gotten away from that. But this has been, again, a renewal of hope to me that we can engage with people who are different than us, not ever give up on our principles at all, stay true to who we are, but do so in a way that shows dignity and respect and recognizes that those people are our people. That we are Americans first and foremost, and we need to remember that. And the critics may say, and they have that the Constitution is hanging by a thread that this is the time where we have to fight with everything we've got and that things are getting worse than ever. And so it's not time to disagree better, it's the time to get stuff done. But you think that those are actually mutually inclusive, that in order to get stuff done, we actually have to disagree better.

(19:26)
And not only that, but far too often the people who are screaming that the Constitution is just hanging on are the ones cutting the courts, the threads and then saying, oh, look, the constitutions not doing what it's supposed to do. And I've been burning it down. I've been the one doing that. And so again, I think that's the piece. Not only are they not mutually exclusive, it's kind of the other way around. The way to save our constitution and our constitutional republic is to actually engage. What's happening now is there are two things that happen. One, if we do engage at all, we just yell at each other. We don't speak the same language, we just yell past each other. That's bad. But I think it's even worse when we just stop engaging at all. And I see that a lot. I hear that more from the left.

(20:17)
Why would I speak to those people? Those people don't care about me, don't want anything to do with me. Those people are racist, sexist, whatever. And when you do that, then we truly are in trouble. And sadly, every election becomes the most important election in our nation's history because so much is riding on that. We have to win. We have to destroy the other side. We have to hold them accountable. It was never supposed to be that way. And too much is riding on these, and it's a razor thin margin, right? Last, well, I mean, going back the past 20 years and longer, it's razor thin margins In every election. No party learns any lessons from the election. We have two minority parties that just hate each other, and neither of them lose as bad enough to do anything different. They just know they'll win the next time because they're not the other party and the other party's so bad.

(21:14)
So that's kind of where we find ourselves right now. And that's not healthy. It's not, we should be looking to build durable coalitions that will last. And to be able to do that, sometimes you have to compromise. But compromise is seen as a bad word. And what I'm saying is you can get 80% of what you want, and that's good, versus getting zero of what you want and tearing our country apart. My old boss, Congressman Simpson would always say anyone that refuses to compromise or says they never has never been married or is not currently married. And so we're capable of compromising in some facets of life, but in the public service. Yeah, and he's absolutely right. And also show me somebody who's never willing to compromise, and I will show you someone who never wins. That's just how it works. So what you're speaking of here is political tribalism, right?

(22:01)
This idea that people are isolating themselves to the voices that only make them feel good. Is it getting worse? Yes and no. And I'll explain why. So it's definitely getting worse. There's no question that we're seeing this polarization happening. We're seeing, if you look at Congress, for example, which raise their thin margin there as well, right? You've got a four person majority. Nobody knows what's going to happen in the next election. It looks likely that right now, if the election were held today that Republicans are going to get West Virginia and Montana. We've got a four point lead there. So we end up with a one vote margin there. The house, who knows? I mean, it's possible that we lose the house and then the presidential, no one knows. So we're probably headed to divided government again. So yes, the ranker is getting louder. Social media is getting worse for sure.

(22:59)
It's much easier to be polarized today to surround yourself only with people whose voices are just like yours. And so that part is definitely getting worse. But there are some signs of hope, and that is, again, more and more people are tired of what's out there. So we have a market failure. No one is trying to fill that void, that market failure. Neither party seems interested in doing that, but somebody's going to figure it out at some point. And when they do, I think they'll win by huge margins. I think if the Republicans, I'm hoping it's the Republicans that figure it out in the 2028 election, when we have new candidates coming in and new ideas, there's a possibility of that. I look at some governors out there like Governor Glenn Jenkin in Virginia, somebody I like who has an incredible approval rating right now in Virginia, which is a purple state, maybe even a blue state.

(23:53)
I mean, Biden won by 10 points there, I think. And so I think there are some people like that. We've heard on the left. I'm trying not to be completely biased. Somebody like Josh Shapiro, who's a governor in Pennsylvania, a great guy, incredibly high approval rating. There are people, Wes Moore in Maryland has a very high approval rating. Good guy who's a builder. And so there are leaders out there, and I'm hopeful that as a country, we will find those leaders eventually. And we may not be able to legislate a fix here, but there are some things that you're doing that may be able to help. And you talk about social media. Talk briefly to maybe some of the stuff Utah's doing when it comes to youth and social media that may be able to address some of these problems. Yeah, look, we are, we care deeply about free speech.

(24:40)
That's not what this is about. But if another book, the Anxious Generation by Jonathan, he who I recommend. Great book. Yeah, great book, great guy, incredible researcher. I tell people, if you're a parent, you have to read it. If you're grandparent, you have to read it. If you're a teacher, you have to read it. If you're aunt and uncle, you have to read it. If you're going to have kids someday, you have to read it. It's the best book ever written on this issue about how social media is really destroying our kids, their mental health. It's so bad. And we're trying to hold social media companies accountable. Sadly, these companies knew they were doing this. They knew it was bad, and they hid it. I believe very strongly that they are the tobacco companies of the fifties and sixties. They're the opioid companies of the nineties and two thousands.

(25:24)
They knew that they were addicting and destroying our kids, and they did it anyway. They have the ability to make kid accounts, youth accounts that don't have the addictive features that allow them to still connect with people, which is important, but not beyond them all day. So we have passed some historic legislation. We're being sued, so we'll go through those lawsuits right now. We're also working to get phones out of schools. Again, some of the research that Jonathan het has shared is that kids do so much better when they don't have their phones and trying to get bell to bell as well. It's important that during lunchtime and recess, they also don't have their phones. So they can actually connect and have conversations and the learning improves. Bullying goes down in these schools where they've done that. Test scores go up, parents are happier, kids are happier.

(26:14)
Not the first week, the first week, it's like taking cigarettes away or alcohol away from an addict, drugs away from an addict cold Turkey. But by week two, there's so much happier and better off and that the whole environment at the school changes, and it's really cool to see it happening. I love to hear it. We love the optimistic message, this message of hope. You've got a lot of things on your calendar today, and you've been very, very gracious to give us some of your time. So as we wrap up today, what's kind of the last word you want to give revolving this message of things can get better if we engage better. So look, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. There's so much to be excited about. We get focused on the negative, but most people are really good people, especially in Idaho and especially in Utah.

(27:02)
And I mean that sincerely. Every time I get a chance to be out and see the good, I just want to share this. So I grew up in a small town. I mentioned five little towns go to the same high school. There were 110 people in my graduating class. We had our 30 year reunion last year. It was great to see everybody again. Two days ago, we had a terrible storm flash flooding in one of those little towns, fountain Green, a town of, I don't know, 600 people, somewhere around there, 700 people. And I think we don't have a final count, but probably half the homes in that town had basements that flooded anywhere from two or three inches to nine feet. A basement's completely full. And I went down there that night and I watched as the people who had four inches in their basement went to tell the people who had eight feet in their basement, people from every town, every community nearby came, fire department showed up, pumping out basements, tearing out carpet, tearing down drywall, and it's just, it renewed again.

(28:05)
My hope for us as a people, my hope for our nation, we have the two best economies in the country between Idaho and Utah. We're two of the fastest growing states, which brings challenges. But we can solve those challenges. Every single one of those challenges, we need a prosperity agenda. And the nation is hungry for what Idaho and Utah have right now. I hear it all of the time. That's why people are coming here, and that's something that we should be proud of. And I'm grateful that you guys are doing incredible work in Idaho. Congratulations for all of this, the main street stuff you're working on, and thanks for letting a Utah kid hang out with the cool kids from MI Idaho. Yeah, it's been a pleasure. We ran out of time to talk about Utah State playing USC in a couple of weeks and get your take on that or the jazz off season. There's so many things, any of it. Anytime you want to turn this into a sports podcast, you just let me know and I am You're here for it. All in all in. Well, let's wrap up with, there's an old quote from Sam Rayburn, old speaker of the house from Texas who used to say, any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one. So we appreciate what you're doing to go out and build barns, especially here. Love that. Thanks governor, man. Appreciate your time.

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Episode 11 Bobbi-Jo Meuleman—Main Street Idaho Podcast Season 3

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Episode 10 Kate Simonds—Main Street Idaho Podcast Season 3

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Episode 9 Idaho Superintendent Debbie Critchfield—Main Street Idaho Podcast Season 3

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Episode 8 MWEG Director Emma Addams—Main Street Idaho Podcast Season 3

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Episode 7 Alex Adams—Main Street Idaho Podcast Season 3

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Episode 6 Idaho Secretary of State Phil McGrane—Main Street Idaho Podcast Season 3

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Episode 5 Dr. Kyle Tobler—Main Street Idaho Podcast Season 3

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Episode 4 Idaho Senator James Risch—Main Street Idaho Podcast Season 3

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Episode 2 Utah Governor Spencer Cox—Main Street Idaho Podcast Season 3

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