Idaho Agriculture and Natural Resources
Episode 3 Representative Laurie Lickley—Main Street Idaho Podcast Season 3
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Virtually joining us from Salmon, Idaho, is Representative Laurie Lickley out of District 25. On episode 3 of the Main Street Idaho Podcast, Representative Lickley details her native Idahoan background advocating for agriculture and natural resources. At the height of agricultural debates throughout Idaho, Lickley outlines why and how she will represent her constituents in her run for the Senate.
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Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (00:00):
Welcome to the Idaho Main Street Podcast where we talk about the issues that matter to you. Welcome to the Idaho Main Street podcast. We're lucky today be joined by a fixture of Idaho agriculture and a friend to Idaho politics, Lori, likely. Lori, thanks so much for being on the podcast today.
Laurie Lickley (00:25):
Well, good morning, Brennan, and thanks for having me. Thanks for the invitation to join you. I look forward to the conversations
Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (00:31):
You're joining us live from your childhood, your childhood hometown of salmon in Idaho, where you're telling us you had stories of mowing the lawn and seeing rattlesnakes and picking raspberries and running into rattlers. So you've got all the stories for us today.
Laurie Lickley (00:47):
I do. I am certain that we don't have time to share all of them, but yes, many stories of picking raspberries annually with rattlesnakes mowing the lawn with rattlesnakes. Today the chipmunks are running over my legs, and so I'd rather have chipmunks than rattlesnakes, but I am home A to check on my family. But B, we signed a lease agreement with the Idaho Fish and Game just a couple months ago on a reclamation pond right here on the Salmon River that we have opened to the public for fishing in memory of my father. And so I'm here to check out the fishing pond, watch the chipmunks, and maybe ride a mule with my brother behind the house in memory of my dad.
Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (01:32):
That's very sentimental. Love that and hope that that's a good experience and then you catch some big ones. This is your first time on the podcast. We're going to have to dig in a little bit. We know you grew up in Sam Idaho, a former president of the Idaho Cattle Association, former legislator in the house, representative, current candidate for Senate seat District 26. Give our audience a little bit of background into who you are and what makes you take
Laurie Lickley (02:00):
Idaho grown. Idaho raised. I grew up on the banks of the Salmon River, really understanding not only Idaho agriculture, but Idaho's natural resource industry. My dad had an outfitting and guide business in my early years and then went on to sell part of it and teach a high school government in history. I spent a lot of time riding my horses, showing four H steers, doing a little bit of rodeoing. I think that not only that high school government from my father, which I might add, that was the only BI got in high school, was from my father in government and civics when I really didn't think I needed to pay attention. However, I think that really resonated and my family homesteaded in Idaho in the early 19 hundreds. My husband's family homesteaded in Idaho in the early 19 hundreds. We really care about Idaho and my background is agriculture and natural resource. I've a degree from the University of Idaho in agriculture economics, and that's where I met my husband and he took me home to the ranch in Jerome, and we've been there for 34 plus years. I can tell you that we care about Idaho and more importantly, I love the beef industry. I serve from a local to a national level, and I really look forward to taking another run at the Senate.
Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (03:31):
So we got to go back a little bit to your first run in Boise. So you went to Boise, you decided your love of Idaho fueled you into running for local office and the state to be the representative for district, I think it was 24 at the time before it got redistricted. Tell us about what your experience was like as a legislator.
Laurie Lickley (03:54):
Yeah. I spent two terms in the Idaho House of Representatives Brennan, and that was legislative District 25, which was all of Jerome and most of rural Fin Falls County and fully enjoyed my time there. Spent both all four years on health and welfare and resources and conservation under the very, very good leadership of Dr. Fred Wood and Mark Gibbs. Two very, very stalwart gentlemen in my opinion, who both took me under their wings. I was able appointed by the governor to serve on the behavioral health council. I ended my time in the house as chairman of resources and conservation, and we really tackled some very challenging but very rewarding projects during those four years. And I was actually really sad to see my time and there was so much more that I wanted to do on water issues, stock water issues. There was more I wanted to do on mental health, much more we could have done on tax relief. But then redistricting happened and Jerome was placed with Lincoln and Blaine County and we had a pretty tumultuous, I think run and it was a pretty big defeat going in. I did expect that I would be victorious and I didn't realize that I had a lot of different factions fighting me on both sides.
Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (05:30):
Let's talk a little bit about those factions. So you are not a stranger to politics, you're not a stranger to campaigns and elections, and so you know what it takes to win, but you were looking at a little different constituency you thought you were going to win as you mentioned. What was it that really surprised you about that election that maybe moved the needle against you?
Laurie Lickley (05:53):
I think the thing that surprised me the most was the outside money and the amount of outside money that came in from groups like Planned Parenthood to support my candidate and oppose me. There were websites built, there were social media campaigns, mailers that went out that really disparaged my character in regards to the trigger legislation that was passed. And I was very disappointed to see that my character and my integrity were thrown under the bus. But I think this legislative district is extremely diverse and I think we've got extreme on both sides. I've taken it from my own party in my legislative district and I've taken it from the far left, and I think both of them got me two years ago. And I'm hopeful that this time around we're meeting people where they're at, we're able to have a broader dialogue around the issues and I hope we have a chance to visit with about some of those that matter to all of them because I can knock on one door Brennan and get somebody who wants to talk about contraception.
(07:08):
I can knock on another door that they want to talk about school vouchers and then I can talk about knock on a door just across the street. And they are frustrated with the political environment. And so I think being able to listen to the constituency is going to be huge in this ground game. But two years ago it was tough. I'm not going to lie. I think that there's a period of grieving, much like many of my colleagues and friends had happen on May 21st. I think you grieve, you're sad, you're angry, and then you're able to kind of gather yourself relook at things and develop a plan that is in the best interest of Idaho. I am Idaho, I care about Idaho and I care about Idaho's future.
Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (07:59):
And you've made the decision after being defeated and getting back to your very busy life on the farm and family, what was it that kind of prompted you to say, you know what, the Idaho Senate is the place that I need to be now?
Laurie Lickley (08:16):
Yeah, I think the Idaho Senate, I set a goal about eight years ago to be in the Senate. And so this first of all is kind of a natural fed, but I looked deep, had a lot of conversations with people that I trust not only in the Magic Valley but across the state about what the dynamics in the Senate would look like. How do we move forward? What is the mechanism to create solutions that work for Idaho, not only today and remembering our past, but really kind of setting us up for future success? And I knew that with my experience and specifically in the and natural resource policy arenas and pushing back sometimes on burdensome federal regulations, I was the best person for the job. And I'm Idaho grown, Idaho raised, I want to work on Idaho solutions for the future. So I dug deep. We had a family meeting. I said, are you all in this with me to put our neck out again and make a run for the Senate? And they all said, yeah, yeah, mom, yeah, honey, let's do it. We have your back. My neighbors have my back. I'm ready to do it again because I do think with my background, I am the best person for the job.
Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (09:44):
And you've got a unique perspective now in that you've sat in the capitol in Boise and experienced what policymaking looks like there. You've experienced it as a voter, as an advocate before and after being an elected leader. So let's dig into some of those issues you talk about that the doors you not care about. So you mentioned education. What is it that your constituents previously and the voters now communicate to you most is important when it comes to education in Idaho?
Laurie Lickley (10:15):
Well, education is freedom, and they really know that if we can get our young people educated, they're going to be a strong participant in Idaho's workforce. But it's going to take us all agreeing to come forward with education plans that work. I spent a lot of time during the four years I was in the Idaho House working on early childhood education, making certain that our families, that our business community, that our communities had the tools they needed to help our parents get their children ready for school, getting them literate by the third grade. I've also been a big supporter of K through 12 education and school choice I know has an amazing abundancy of school choice. I know my children went to a private Christian school for the first few years and then went out to a small public school, the Valley School District to finish out their education.
(11:19):
They got a great education in both capacities and I think the more we can engage our parents in this process, support our teachers, the better off we're going to be. I've also been a big proponent of higher education, whether that's continuing technical education or continuing to support our land grant institution, the University of Idaho, whether it be Idaho State University that focuses on a lot of pharmacy and other trades, university state. We've got some really amazing higher educational institutions in Idaho. And I really want to work together for solutions that work not only now, but in the future. I don't think burning down our education system is an option. I think it's going to take us all working together to come forward with the plan that works and I don't want is a perfect example of that. Finding in demand careers and supporting our students to come back into the workforce and serve our local economies and our communities well.
Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (12:23):
Yeah, and we could obviously spend hours talking about education and we know that there's going to be some exciting education opportunities and debates when it comes to policymaking there. Let's go from education to an issue that we know is really important for your neck of the woods. There's a lot of public lands in your area, and when it comes to how those lands are managed, it causes some hot debates. You mentioned your drive this morning and yesterday. Skies are a little hazy. So it's fire season and fire season is long in Idaho. Walk us through what you've experienced as a farmer, as a legislator, as a hopeful senator when it comes to how we ought to manage these federal lands.
Laurie Lickley (13:06):
This has been something we've battled. And again, I think it would take a lot longer than we have time here, Brennan on this podcast. But I grew up on the banks of the Salmon River where we had three timber mills and agriculture, and those were the two industries that drove our local economy. And I can tell you we have zero timber mills here. Agriculture is no longer the driving force. We used to have a creamery on Main Street too. The spotted Owl shut down the logging industry here. And with that shutdown has come a ripple effect. We no longer have the infrastructure to support management of our forest service lands. And so I have seen the implications to our rural communities when they don't manage the lands as they're intended to be managed and wildfires, we're seeing the inability, I think, to manage our timber, our fuel loads.
(14:13):
Many know that for fires to get out of hand, they've got to have oxygen, they've got to have a fuel load, and then they've got to have heat. And we're seeing all of those right now and I think the wheels of federal management of our public lands move so slowly that we can't get them managed to the degree they need to be managed. We can't get in there and harvest that, the dead and disease timber or they want to cut our grazing AUMs as they have over the years because of the endangered species like slick spot pepper grass and sage grouse. And yet we have research that shows that we can coexist and that we are grazing is something that is not only sustainable, but it actually supports some of these species and it reduces the field load. Idaho has led the way in rangeland fire protection associations and letting our ranchers and our rural community members be the first line of defense on these fires.
(15:18):
I think Idaho and the Good Neighbor Authority, there's another example of partnering with the Forest Service to let us manage Forest Service lands, harvest the timber share in some of those revenues. I think when we do it the Idaho way, we're going to be a lot better off. We could talk about Lava Ridge too. I feel like we're getting the heavy hand of a federal executive order for large scale wind and solar projects on our federal lands in Idaho being pushed down our throat and Idaho is saying no. And we've told them no on multiple issues over the years, whether it be endangered species issues, waters of the United States, et cetera. It just, I don't know, it gets a little bit frustrating. I mean, the only thing that is consistent is those of us that have been out here on the land for now, well over 100 years, we know what works. We know what doesn't work. We're willing to partner with people who understand how to collaborate, how to cooperate, and how to make the best decisions out on our resources, whether it be timber or whether it be range lands.
Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (16:31):
You and I, we've been fortunate, we've been on a few forests together, we've been on some tours, we've been out in the wooded areas, and this isn't an issue of support for public lands. And you've expressed you've got a deep appreciation for the natural resources of Idaho and the right way to protect and conserve that which ought to be protected and conserved, but also to utilize what we need to for industry. It really isn't, I mean, I don't want to speak for you, but you're not advocating for clear cuts across the state and turning over state and federal lands for private sales, are you?
Laurie Lickley (17:07):
No, I'm certainly not. I want to keep our public lands in public hands. I think the opportunity to recreate and enjoy Idaho's amazing and beautiful outdoors is something that makes Idaho, Idaho. I'm looking to collaborate, to cooperate, to pull people in who have a broader vision to support that resource, whether it be our logging industry, whether it be our ranchers, whether it be our creators, how do we balance the all hands, all lands approach? How do we balance conservation, multiple use? And I think we've got a lot of really smart people, Brennan in Idaho, and I think if we pull them to the table, we look at the landscape, we collaborate and we look at the future on how to maintain our rural economies, I think we can come forward with some pretty amazing solutions. And yeah, no, I care about Idaho. I care about her.
(18:14):
I can tell you one thing that my brother wants us to keep working on is in the National Forest Forest and in the wilderness areas, chainsaws are considered motorized vehicles and we can't clear, our volunteers can't clear trails, and it's frustrating. It's something my dad fought during his time with the Idaho and the National Backcountry Horsemen. They're simple things that, gosh, if our outfitters or my brother who packs into the back country in Idaho, they could take a chainsaw with them and help clear some of those trails that might help with fire suppression. So I think we've got a lot of great people in Idaho that could work on solutions that might help with fires, that might help with all sorts of things.
Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (19:12):
Yeah, it's a wonderful thing when you can sprinkle a little bit of logic into a situation. It's just doesn't happen often enough when it comes to federal bureaucracy. You mentioned Lava Ridge. For those who know about the Lva Ridge project, it is controversial to some and absolutely infuriating to many in Idaho, but there are a lot of people and maybe some of our listeners that aren't familiar with it. So you referenced, walk us through where it's at and what they're trying to do with the Lava Ridge Wind Farm.
Laurie Lickley (19:42):
Yeah, the Love for Ridge Wind Energy Project is a large scale wind energy project proposed in Jerome Lincoln Counties. I think there might be a little bit that was proposed in Mendocha, but I believe the final pulled most of it out of there, and therefore most of it would be on in Lincoln and Jerome counties. And the final EIS was released late this spring and they had pared it down considerably from what it was being proposed. But the communities have spoken and they've spoken loudly, but they've also spoken with the friends of Mendocha, which the internment camp is right there. And most recently we see that the Idaho, Idaho Conservation League this morning in the Times News has come out in support of it. And so seeing a conservation organization supporting this large scale project is very concerning. And Lava Ridge for me is the one taking all the heat.
(20:49):
There's 10 other large scale renewable wind and solar projects proposed on federal lands in the Snake River plain. And so while Lava Ridge is the one taking all the heat, we've really got to be attuned to watching those others. But the thing that's most frustrating for me on the Lava Ridge Project Brennan, is the fact that this was an executive order from the Biden administration the first month of his presidency when he put forward a proposal in an executive order for large scale renewable wind and solar projects on federal lands at the same time, he put out an executive order for a 30 by 30 conservation plan across the United States and on our federal lands. I don't know about you, but that sounds like it's pretty in conflict. And I'm not sure that renewable energy development is on the same multiple use field as let's say, grazing or recreation.
(21:53):
And so I've really kind of pushed back from the beginning on this project and our entire community, our county commissioners, our city councils, our governor, we've had everybody we know, including our congressional folks pushing back on this Congressman Simpson, Senator Rich, and when our local voices should matter on federal lands. And I've asked Idaho to come forward with an Idaho energy plan to really assist our local counties in how to navigate these large scale projects on public lands because a component of that is going to be conditional use and special use permits that our local planning and zoning groups are going to have to decide. And so what do we do? I mean, Lincoln County maybe wants a Jerome County that is just speculative. Neither one of them want it, but you know what happens if you have a patchwork of conditional use permits? What about our roads and bridges?
(23:01):
I mean, I know that I've got family where some of these roads to take in these large turbines. I mean, how are they going to get them through those small county roads? I mean, are they going to get into their grazing lots or they're going to get into their hay fields or their corn fields? I just don't think we're looking at all of the implications that a project of this size, and I do question that we're on the cusp of other clean renewable energy like nuclear. We've got digesters going in on our dairies. I really think we need to hit pause on some of this and really focus on addressing Idaho's energy needs in a different capacity. And
Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (23:46):
I'm obviously not in the business of fear mongering or pushing the big red button that says the sky's falling. But it is concerning that there can be individuals working out of DC who can make decisions that drastically affect the lives of say, small town Idahoans without what appears to be any public support from those in the communities. And you mentioned the EIS, which is an environmental impact statement. So they go through their bureaucratic paperwork of making sure that they check the boxes of what it's going to do to the environment, but it appears that the locals have been very opposed to this, but that the administration, secretary Holland seems like they're still pushing it through.
Laurie Lickley (24:33):
And that's certainly the sense that we get. I know that the environmental impact statements are supposed to include a socioeconomic component to that. And I know as we work through grazing permit renewals, that socioeconomic component is supposed to be included. You're supposed to get what the community wants. I think the federal government continues to ignore what the local people are requesting. And it is extremely frustrating as we started this conversation. The local people know best, and this is our land too. It is federally managed, but this is our land. It is in with our borders. I think that socioeconomic component has got to be considered in absolutely everything. And I don't care whether it's a grazing permit renewal, whether it's a mineral right or whatever. I think you've, you've got to include your local community in that analysis. And in this instance, the local community has spoken, we don't like it.
Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (25:43):
And at the core of this is the idea that those who are affected most should have a proportional voice to the way in which they'll be affected. And moving on from Lava Ridge, but somewhat connected, you reference, most people hear of this large scale wind farm's going to go into Idaho, and there's a lot of problems that come with that. And people initially can talk about, well, what's that going to do to so many things of our landscape and the way that we view this and our economies and all these other things. You can pull out things like grazing permits. And I think it lends itself to the importance of having somebody who thinks about grazing permits and understands what an effect that that has on the agriculture community has on policymaking. So we've talked in the past to there used to be the ID legislatures used to be packed with farmers and ranchers, and that's not the case anymore. It seems like y'all are a dying breed over there. Why is it so important that we have those who actually have real experience in agriculture at the table when it comes to policymaking in Idaho?
Laurie Lickley (26:50):
Yeah, and I did a little back of the napkin analysis last fall. Brennan Idaho, as short as 10 years ago, used to have over 20% of the legislative body made their living in some sort of production agriculture. Either directly or indirectly, that number has dropped to about the 10 or 12% range right now. Now we're still higher than our surrounding states, but why does it matter? It means that we have to work. We have worked for decades to improve our communities. We are not afraid to get our hands dirty. We're not afraid to work hard. I can tell you that those in the agriculture industries weather, the volatility, a commodity prices, we see life and death sometimes within seconds of each other. We watched and weathered mother nature's vicious hardships and we build resiliency. And I think sometimes other, some may say they support agriculture, but do they really know what it means to have calves frozen to the ground when you've got days and days and days of Sub-Zero temperatures?
(28:11):
Do they know what it's like when a hailstorm takes out their corn and they don't have the crop to market or the flood that comes through and takes out everything or the piece of equipment that broke down that you can't get the part for two weeks, neighbors helping neighbors, getting your fingers dirty, getting your boots dirty. I think those of us in agriculture understands what it takes. We're not afraid to work hard. And I can tell you that's one of the big differences between me and my opponent is I've certainly not seen him at all on the Idaho Ag All Star list. And I can tell you those in LD 26 deserves somebody that's not or that is willing to get their feet dirty. I can spend all day in a tractor. I can spend all day on the back of a horse. I can spend all day. Well, I don't think I can spend all day on the end of a shovel anymore though, Brennan, I'm afraid that I might wear out after about an hour. But we're not afraid. We're resilient. We know how to solve problems. We know how to critically think, and we recognize that we're not the expert in all areas, but we darn sure know who to call to pull in to help us weather whatever storm it looks like.
Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (29:31):
And we really do take for granted the importance of agriculture in Idaho. Way too often. It's not just a campaign slogan that Idaho farmers feed the world and that it is the backbone of our economy, but times change. And as you've already pointed out, if we continue on a trend where we end up with nobody at the table who understands ag policy making ag policy, it's problematic. But I also worry about the days when candidates can get elected that are not Ag Pro education, pro ag. We like those people. Everybody is pro ag in education, but that's slowly not becoming the case in Idaho. And does that concern you?
Laurie Lickley (30:10):
No, it certainly does concern me. We see candidates touting their ag, supportive ag, and then when it comes down to voting on legislation that the cattle industry or the dairy industry or the water users wants their group's support and they don't support that in the legislature, I find that problematic. And so yeah, it's easy to say, okay, I grew up on a farm or my grandpa farmed and so forth, but it's where the rubber meets the road. You've, you've got to understand agriculture, you've got to know where to go to get the information, and you've got to work with those groups. I always found that I am a beef producer and a rancher vertically integrated now, but I darn sure don't know a whole lot about the wheat or the dairy industry per se. So I'm going to go to those industry organizations and say, what do your members want?
(31:16):
How do we help you? What are the policies that we need to help you? And I am seeing that's not the case anymore, and that downright scares me to death. And I don't want to see us become like Oregon or Washington or California. We look at the regulatory environment there in regards to agriculture. And if we don't start looking at our candidates very closely about how they support agriculture, we're going to be in a heap of hert. We're watching, I know between 2017 and 2022, there was over 140,000 acres of good prime agricultural land taken out of production in Idaho in Jerome County alone. Last year we had 111 acres and just for reference and acres about the size of a football field converted, converted out of agricultural land and put into some sort of other use. We're seeing that trend continue across Idaho, and half of the farm receipts in Idaho come right out of the Magic Valley too. We are a big supporter and a contributor to the gross domestic product of Idaho. And a lot of our product can't be consumed inside our walls. We've got to export it out of there, but it is the engine that drives our rural communities. It drives my community in Jerome. It drives the Magic Valley. It drives Lincoln County, and we've really got to, I think, make sure that we're looking at candidates who understand Idaho agriculture and it contributions to Idaho's economy.
Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (32:52):
Yeah, well said. Well said. We started today talking about rattlesnakes in salmon. We got into your election, your family's history, born and raised in Idaho, and your desire to get involved in Idaho legislature, the painful loss and the role that out-of-State money put in, trying to take a conservative seat in turning it liberal, we got into the issues that mattered most to your communities. You talked about the importance of education concerns over land management and adamant opposition to the Lava Ridge Project. The concerns there, we got into the importance of agriculture and having people that understand ag and having ag work ethic at the table. We've covered a lot. Excuse me. What I think is important to end with that we tend to do with all of our first time guests is we like to throw people on the spot. Our studio tech, Casey's already laughing. He knows exactly what questions coming, Laurie, we love to ask people, what is one book in your life that you've read that you would recommend that everybody that can hear your voice right now should read?
Laurie Lickley (33:59):
Oh dear. Well, those that follow me on social media know that I've been a part of a book club Four Ladies for, I dunno, well over a decade. We have one Democrat, three Republicans, three Catholics, one Methodist. We're a very diverse group. And so we've read a lot of books over the years and I usually have a hard copy of a book and I'm usually listening to one another one at the same time. But the book that stands out to me that I have in my library I took to the Capitol with me to remind me of who I am is the book that justice, Sandra Day O'Connor penned with her brother Alan Day called The Lazy Bee. It talks about her time growing up on the Arizona New Mexico border and kind of the birth of the Bureau of Land Management. She watched it grow right there. But I watched her resiliency and I think that propelled her. And she's kind of, I don't know, I kind of geek out over Sandra Day, so the Lazy Bee, but then how she went on to be the first woman in the Supreme Court and appointed by President Reagan. And I kind like, I want to be Sandra Day. And so the Lazy Bee with Alan Day really just sets the foundation for her and her life and it really almost to some degrees that kind of lays the stage for mine.
Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (35:30):
Yeah, the Lazy Bee. Thank you for that recommendation. I'm pretty sure that was my nickname that my dad called me because I am not good at the end of a shovel. But we know, Laurie, you've got some fishing that you hopefully will get to do today. Maybe a little bit of mule riding with your family, but it's always back to work, both campaigning and getting involved on the farm and making sure everything's run properly. Thank you so much for your time. We appreciate your insights and we definitely appreciate your service. So any last words you'd like to leave us with?
Laurie Lickley (36:00):
No, just thank you for the opportunity to visit with you. And the one issue that we did not get to talk about was creating a safe environment to talk about women's health. And I'm really enjoying my time on the Idaho Contraceptive Education Network, making sure that we protect access to contraception, in vitro fertilization, and again, keeping government out of the doctor's offices in women's health.
Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (36:27):
Well, I'll make you a deal. How about we're going to set aside some time. If you can find any few spare minutes for us, let's have you back on and we can talk specifically about that issue.
Laurie Lickley (36:38):
Alright. Well, again, thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. And until we talk again,
Brennan Summers, Podcast Host (36:43):
Thank you so much. Until next time.
